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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
JWeinCom said:

CM Punk's return promo was... weird...

It was going to be hard to do a return promo so soon after his other return promo. But he kind of just didn't address the elephant in the room. The promo started off very rah rah yay WWE I'm so happy to be back. He obviously mentioned that he left but didn't really talk about his leaving, why he decided to come back, or try to justify his return.

Afterwards he started talking about how he was the best and how everyone's afraid that he'll take their spot and how much better he is than everyone else, and it definitely came off as kind of heelish.

So idk. His return to AEW promo was definitely better, at least in the short term. This kind of reminded me of something waaaaay back maybe around 2010 give or take a couple of years when Jericho returned to WWE after one of his hiatuses. He came out and literally said nothing for weeks. Here, Punk didn't say literally nothing, but he didn't say much of substance. I was left feeling less "yay CM Punk is back" and more "huh... what are they doing here?"

He can't address the elephant in the room w/o looking like a giant hypocrite... Which is exactly what they should be leaning to. I mean, Rollins was building that up in his promo and it's clear they're building to Rollins/Punk as his first big match back.

But this was clearly a misfire from management.

This is his first promo back w/ the company in nearly 10 years after all the history, drama, and bad blood. There's a lot of history to play w/ there and... you only give him 6 minutes? And it's the most basic, half-baked, "I'm the best in the world, come at me" promo one could muster?

Well, I certainly believe now that this was a move that was planned VERY recently and not months in advance.



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They played it safe thats for sure with his promo.



PAOerfulone said:
JWeinCom said:

CM Punk's return promo was... weird...

It was going to be hard to do a return promo so soon after his other return promo. But he kind of just didn't address the elephant in the room. The promo started off very rah rah yay WWE I'm so happy to be back. He obviously mentioned that he left but didn't really talk about his leaving, why he decided to come back, or try to justify his return.

Afterwards he started talking about how he was the best and how everyone's afraid that he'll take their spot and how much better he is than everyone else, and it definitely came off as kind of heelish.

So idk. His return to AEW promo was definitely better, at least in the short term. This kind of reminded me of something waaaaay back maybe around 2010 give or take a couple of years when Jericho returned to WWE after one of his hiatuses. He came out and literally said nothing for weeks. Here, Punk didn't say literally nothing, but he didn't say much of substance. I was left feeling less "yay CM Punk is back" and more "huh... what are they doing here?"

He can't address the elephant in the room w/o looking like a giant hypocrite... Which is exactly what they should be leaning to. I mean, Rollins was building that up in his promo and it's clear they're building to Rollins/Punk as his first big match back.

But this was clearly a misfire from management.

This is his first promo back w/ the company in nearly 10 years after all the history, drama, and bad blood. There's a lot of history to play w/ there and... you only give him 6 minutes? And it's the most basic, half-baked, "I'm the best in the world, come at me" promo one could muster?

Well, I certainly believe now that this was a move that was planned VERY recently and not months in advance.

I said they should have him come back and be a total shill, and it seems they might be doing that. Particularly with his last line "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make money." If so, good for those handsome geniuses. I dunno whether or not this is planned. It's a bit like Bray Wyatt where there was a veeeeeery slow burn when he returned. I thought that was because of the type of character he is, but maybe it's just how HHH does things.



JWeinCom said:

I said they should have him come back and be a total shill, and it seems they might be doing that. Particularly with his last line "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make money." If so, good for those handsome geniuses. I dunno whether or not this is planned. It's a bit like Bray Wyatt where there was a veeeeeery slow burn when he returned. I thought that was because of the type of character he is, but maybe it's just how HHH does things.

Well , lets just hope he lasts and not end up like what happened in AEW lol



BasilZero said:
JWeinCom said:

I said they should have him come back and be a total shill, and it seems they might be doing that. Particularly with his last line "I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make money." If so, good for those handsome geniuses. I dunno whether or not this is planned. It's a bit like Bray Wyatt where there was a veeeeeery slow burn when he returned. I thought that was because of the type of character he is, but maybe it's just how HHH does things.

Well , lets just hope he lasts and not end up like what happened in AEW lol

We'll see. He made it like 9 years in his last WWE stint so I imagine he'll be ok. 



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Tuned in for RAW and NXT this week for the first time in a while. It was a real step up from what I remember. It looks like Triple H taking over creative injected some serious energy into RAW – everything felt bigger and more polished. There's a wave of freshness with a bunch of new faces.

The standout match for me on RAW had to be Bronson Reed vs Ivar featuring Valhalla/Sara Logan. Initially, it seemed like an odd match-up, and the crowd was quiet. But by the end, they were absolutely losing it. I think wrestling crowds are getting a lot better. RAW, in particular, has this newfound magnitude, a real return to form.

Now, NXT was solid, don't get me wrong. It's just missing that early-years vibe, that underground exclusivity when Asuka, Ember, DIY, and we’re on the scene. The matches delivered, but I can't help but feel the show's a bit stretched at two hours. I miss the days of the split between UK and US rosters, two punchy one-hour shows.

And that CM Punk pop over the weekend? Megaton! The whole thing felt way bigger and more serious than his debut at ADW.

Next I’m gonna need to catch up, though – as I said, lots of new faces, I barely recognized half the people on RAW. Less so on NXT than RAW where I only recognized Pillman (who I mainly recognized because he had his father’s hairstyle), Chad Gable, and Gargano. And this was first time catching a Steiner match – I was a big fan of his uncle in WCW and Bronson Steiner has some of that energy.

Exciting times in the WWE this year. Everything's clicking back into place, and it all feels fresh again.
Looking forward to Smackdown, and I’m wondering about NXT Level Up.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Crowds are becoming crazy again for pro-wrestling.

Here is a shot of the CM Punk reveal from the audience. It happens just after the 2:50 mark, but go back to about 2:45 to contrast how loud it was compared to the music.

It reminds me of the absurdity of the crowds in the Attitude era dealing with The Rock or a surprise Stone Cold appearance. Except this one was bigger. The music is eclipsed by what can't be accurately called a pop. It was more like an explosion of the sort of crowd insanity you'd expect for a tie breaking goal in the World Cup final (or a sudden death goal in the Stanley Cup final, Punk being an NHL guy and all).



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Crowds are becoming crazy again for pro-wrestling.

Here is a shot of the CM Punk reveal from the audience. It happens just after the 2:50 mark, but go back to about 2:45 to contrast how loud it was compared to the music.

It reminds me of the absurdity of the crowds in the Attitude era dealing with The Rock or a surprise Stone Cold appearance. Except this one was bigger. The music is eclipsed by what can't be accurately called a pop. It was more like an explosion of the sort of crowd insanity you'd expect for a tie breaking goal in the World Cup final (or a sudden death goal in the Stanley Cup final, Punk being an NHL guy and all).

This is why I was pretty much 100% confident that CM Punk would be coming back to the WWE. At this point pretty much everyone who is a mainstream star has come through the WWE. So you can't really have a big OMG it's ________ moment anymore, because whoever it is, we've probably already seen them in WWE, and even if they left, we were pretty sure they'd be back, because everyone always comes back. You could have something like when AJ styles debuted where it's a big deal to the people who are bigger wrestling fans, but you can't have something like when Jericho debuted on Raw, or the Outsiders went to WCW, etc. Closest we've had was Cody debuting. 

CM Punk is the one exception. Everyone comes back (unless they die), but he was the one person you thought just might not. So, there's something just extra special about that which can't be replicated. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say this is the biggest moment in WWE since... I dunno, maybe Mania 30 when Bryan won the title? Point is, this was the most exciting thing to happen in a while, and that means $$$$$$$$.

CM Punk kind of redid his debut promo on Smackdown, and it was much better. It was not quite a pipe bomb, but a nice little cherry bomb promo where he called out people, made some references to the past, and threw some shade at AEW for those who are in the know. It's more of what you expected of Punk. I like the way they're going with this where it's kind of a question mark whether this is nice guy Punk who is going to be a team player and play by the rules or if he's gonna be the prickly disagreeable Punk of the past. And that's definitely the way to go, because that's what fans are wondering. Sometimes when it is given to you on a silver platter, you just eat it.

That being said, I don't like the idea of Punk main eventing Mania. There are just so many other guys that have been killing it lately. Owens, Mcyntyre, Sami Zayn are at the top of that list. Rhea vs Bianca could also be a main event if they book it right (I don't think they have to have a women's main event just for the sake of equality, but if you have two legit female stars and can build it, you should). Whatever CM Punk does at Mania will be a big deal, and if he's in it for the long haul, there's no harm in waiting a year.

In terms of AEW, I'll actually be going to World's End. It's nearby, and I have a friend who is an AEW fan that went to Extreme Rules with me, so I kind of owed them one. And Danielson is one of my favorite wrestlers so it'll be nice to see him live for what I believe will be the first time. Plus, if they reveal Jack Perry as the Devil, I may get to be part of a riot... or at least a very long exasperated groan. 



This post is a bit of a meander of a post across a few topics, mainly surrounding CM Punk.

This week’s RAW was really entertaining. This is starting to feel like the Attitude era again in terms of the level of heat on the show. For the first time in years, I actually want to go to a wrestling show. There’s a lot to talk about, Becky/Nia, which began years ago, and the last time I was watching WWE regularly. So, it kind of feels like they’re tailoring a show for us older fans coming back.

But the big story is CM Punk’s return. This RAW solidified how much bigger this return was, it’s to the point that this feels like true Return and AEW was the warm up. The amount of heat that promo had reminded me of how I felt about The Rock vs Triple H, Bret vs Shawn Michaels an era when I could emotionally buy into WWF’s narratives. The best part about it is this is only chapter 1 for the CM Punk Return era (not sure a real name for it yet, Endeavour era sounds a bit too corporate).

This is the era where the next true big stars are going to be made, because Brock, Punk, and Orton are all in their 40s, and WWE is long overdue for the next crop of transcendent talent (or people that are recognizable beyond the pro-wrestling fandom).

As I was saying, Seth Rollins is only chapter 1, and it will lead into the real big and more obvious feud: CM Punk vs Roman Reigns ft. Paul Heyman - a story so well set up it writes itself, this will have to have Heyman opposed to Punk because it will help make a later reconciliation far more compelling. That reconciliation could lead to a feud with Triple H, another story with the setup already written - the climactic feud of the foreseeable future, which might be as much as 2.5 years down the road. Of course, I don’t know what WWE will do, but that’s how I see the big story arcs going with some smaller ones in between. I can see CM Punk being really interested in that storyline in 2024-2026, even though he wasn’t in 2013-2014. Or maybe that chapter can be a Triple H and CM Punk alliance against some other Endeavour authority that brings up all of that animosity they have - or that Endeavour feud can be the fourth big chapter after Punk vs Triple H (will he be able to do matches? I’m aware he had some serious health concerns) - an alliance and feud for the ages, perhaps even more shocking than Austin and McMahon teaming up - it could be to wrestling as Octavian and Antony teaming up to take down Brutus and Cassius was to the Roman Empire - Brutus figured he’d take advantage of the feud between Octavian and Antony, and then was shocked when the two teamed up to wage war against him. Smaller chapters in between could include Punk vs Cody, MJF coming to WWE and feuding with Punk (not sure there are many other compelling feuds from AEW guys beyond him besides other old guy, where MJF has a long future ahead).

The elephant in the room: how much of a dumb fuck is Tony Khan? A perfect storyline, with real heat, falls right into his lap, with multiple feuds involved with tremendous heat, and he fires the only guy who can make all that happen? That’s what killed AEW, why it’s been in free fall decline. Such a ton of wasted potential. They could have been a legitimate competitor against WWE for years to come. Not now. So, from what I’m hearing, at that in the London event AEW didn’t provide any info, accommodations, or transportation for Punk—basically their main character. A few months ago, AEW could be compared to WCW, and now the very suggestion feels like giving them too much credit. That said, AEW got Punk back in WWE and that’s no small thing. Punk returning to WWE has the bigger potential than Punk remaining in AEW, so as a fan, I think Tony Khan’s fuck up of the century is what resulted in the shot in the cheek WWE needed. What’s the future for AEW? What we know is that with a guy as spoiled stupid as Tony Khan, they have the financial resources, but not the creative resources to ever produce a major star. They’re more like a sandbox for wrestlers to build a resume, and show what WWE can do with them.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 15 December 2023

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

There's a lot that can come out of the return of CM Punk

I just hope he doesnt blow up like he did with AEW.

Though I think its mainly because Tony Khan mismanaged and gave him too much power and control. (Kinda like how WCW gave the NWO main three characters - hogan, nash and hall control).