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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17

Call me crazy, but I think Shinsuke Nakamura just might beat Seth Rollins and become Champion.

Considering the story, it would make sense for Seth to lose due to his back injury. If he actually needs time off take it. Then wonder if he can come back and make a heroic return yada yada. A heel champion makes a bit more sense on Raw atm, because outside of the Judgment Day there really aren't a ton of heels. Only Gunther, who is likely not going for the world title any time soon, and should win once he does.

Gonna make another prediction and say that Damien Priest will cash in the MITB briefcase in the near future............ .on Sami Zayn and KO. Don't think they're going to break up the judgment day just yet, and this is a way to resolve the issues therein. Also may just make the tag titles seem like they're worth something. Meanwhile, Sami and KO can go on to do stuff as singles competitors, which would make more sense. Maybe Sami Zayn vs Nakamura?



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Well, the CM Punk era in AEW is done. Not going to bother recapping the details. I largely sympathize with CM Punk. But, the industry isn't what it used to be. If Crash Holly had thrown shade at the Undertaker in the attitude era, there was definitely gonna be some physical consequence. But, in this day and age, if you put your hands on someone backstage, deserved or not, probably gonna get fired. Especially if it's a second time. But I'm not sure Punk really cares. For better or worse, Punk has always been a person who cares more about being right than getting along. If he was going to make it in AEW he was going to have deal with barbs and jabs and the occasional disrespect. He wasn't willing to put up with it. Maybe he should have been.

Fair to say that in the end the CM Punk experiment didn't work. This really should have been a slam dunk for all involved, but they couldn't get everyone on the same page.

I want CM Punk to come back to the WWE. Cut a promo saying people think he doesn't know when to apologize. But that he does. Then go on to do a string of apologies. To Vince McMahon, to the wonderful doctors of the WWE. Then, to the greatest pro wrestler of all time... HHH. Say that he deeply regrets that they were never able to work together at Wrestlemania, but now he wants to be able to work under such a true visionary.

Essentially make him the biggest schill in the fucking world. Then, turn him from CM Punk to GM Punk. Have him basically play HHH's authority character. He will be the most hated man in the industry by far. When he uses the phrase "best for business" there would be nuclear heat. It would be fucking glorious.

As for Payback. Was pretty decent. Like an above average PPV. Like a B-

Trish vs Becky was surprisingly the match of the night. I don't think Trish's work has been great since her return so my expectations were low, but she sure showed me. They were in sync and had a lot of great spots that were well set up. Could have done without the interference at the end. Definitely best match of Trish's return run, and the best Becky's had in a while too. Feud lasted too long, but ended (hopefully) on a strong note.

Rey Mysterio/Theory and LA Knight/Miz can be summed up the same way. Great talents, worked well together, but the matches had no intrigue. LA Knight was obviously going to win his match, so even with Cena as guest ref, it wasn't too interesting. Austin Theory is completely lost in the shuffle right now, and while he and Rey did great work, it was hard to care.

Sami Zayn & KO vs Judgment Day was good if you like that sort of thing. It was a streetfight, but more of the "we're going to go around the arena and do neat and sometimes silly spots" than the "we're going to try to kill each other" type. Sami Zayn and KO look like putzes for not having a plan for when all of judgment day interfered. Sami Zayn's Blue Thunder Bomb can't even get a pin when it's done onto a pile of chairs XD. Not my type of thing, but fun. Likely leading to a war games match with Judgment day vs Sami and Friends.

Raquel Gonzalez and Rhea Ripley was really solid. Great showcase for Raquel. They kept things simple, allowing Raquel to showcase her power on Rhea who was placed in the unfamiliar position of being the smaller woman. Not every match needs dives, heavily choreographed sequences, etc. Don't think they needed the interference at the end. Would have been fine for Raquel to lose clean.

Rey Mysterio vs Nakamora was good, but not great. As expected Shinsuke focused on the back and dominated most of the match. They worked well together and everything worked but it just kind of felt like it was missing something. It felt like the match was finally starting to kick into third gear and it just... ended. To my recollection there weren't a lot of spots where Seth felt truly in danger of losing the title. Near falls, long submissions, etc. Feels like maybe they were holding back in anticipation of a rematch or something. 

It was a fun way to spend my Sunday morning. Nothing I'd recommend anyone going out of their way to see, except maybe the Trish vs Becky match. I think we're seeing a kind of shift in the way WWE is viewing PPVs. Back in the day they were asking for 50 bucks a show, and now it's like 60 bucks or something for a year's worth of shows plus whatever else is on Peacock (in the US at least). It's a lot less of an ask in terms of money, so maybe they don't need to make the same kind of push. Not saying they're putting on bad stuff, but they're not using all of their top talent, not every title is being defended, not every match has an epic build or hype package, etc. They had some big matches opening and closing the show, then stuff in the middle that was varying degrees of decent. And I'm guessing they'll do more of a blowout kind of thing for the big four and maybe MITB or something. 

We'll see how it works for them. For me personally, they've been kind of stuck in a good but not great pattern for a while now. I can't recall seeing a PPV in a while where I regretted having spent the time watching it (especially since they're recorded not and you can go at your own pace), but I also haven't been blown away in a while. Very comfort foodish Wrestling since Mania. 



I don't sympathize with Punk. When HHH said "he's your problem now", those words rang so true.

This man put his hands on someone over a spot in a match that HE didn't even have a spot in. Jungle boy got the approval from higher-ups for said spot so that should have ended it right there. CM Punk doesn't sign paychecks, Tony Khan does. I agree with Punk about not using glass, but the problem is that he doesn't understand it's not his choice to make. That was between Jungle boy, Hook, and whoever gave them the ok to do it.

Not to mention Punk is a hypocrite. It's ok when he goes off-script and shoots on people. But when someone does it back to him he can't control his anger. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


Moxley was right when he said Punk has a fragile ego. Period



lgs20XP said:

I don't sympathize with Punk. When HHH said "he's your problem now", those words rang so true.

This man put his hands on someone over a spot in a match that HE didn't even have a spot in. Jungle boy got the approval from higher-ups for said spot so that should have ended it right there. CM Punk doesn't sign paychecks, Tony Khan does. I agree with Punk about not using glass, but the problem is that he doesn't understand it's not his choice to make. That was between Jungle boy, Hook, and whoever gave them the ok to do it.

Not to mention Punk is a hypocrite. It's ok when he goes off-script and shoots on people. But when someone does it back to him he can't control his anger. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


Moxley was right when he said Punk has a fragile ego. Period

Completely agree with you, could not have said it better. I can't sympathize with Punk at all, the man has had problems at every promotion he has worked at. At some point it has to become clear that you are the problem, not everyone else.

Having said that, he will end up back at the WWE (I have no doubt about that). They'll hire him and he'll cut a promo where he indirectly trashes AEW, doing even more damage to them. Then he will be on his best behavior because where else can he go, no one else can afford him at this point but the WWE. If he screws up with them again then that is his legacy, the perpetual bridge burner.



lgs20XP said:

I don't sympathize with Punk. When HHH said "he's your problem now", those words rang so true.

This man put his hands on someone over a spot in a match that HE didn't even have a spot in. Jungle boy got the approval from higher-ups for said spot so that should have ended it right there. CM Punk doesn't sign paychecks, Tony Khan does. I agree with Punk about not using glass, but the problem is that he doesn't understand it's not his choice to make. That was between Jungle boy, Hook, and whoever gave them the ok to do it.

Not to mention Punk is a hypocrite. It's ok when he goes off-script and shoots on people. But when someone does it back to him he can't control his anger. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


Moxley was right when he said Punk has a fragile ego. Period

I'd agree if not for the fact that Perry went out of his way to make comments clearly addressed to Punk on air. It didn't end because he decided to keep it going. Can't just hit people backstage these days... but he kind of deserved it. Perry wanted to get a reaction, and he got one. 



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CM Punk screwed CM Punk.

Dude didnt even need to confront anyone directly.



JWeinCom said:

Call me crazy, but I think Shinsuke Nakamura just might beat Seth Rollins and become Champion.

Considering the story, it would make sense for Seth to lose due to his back injury. If he actually needs time off take it. Then wonder if he can come back and make a heroic return yada yada. A heel champion makes a bit more sense on Raw atm, because outside of the Judgment Day there really aren't a ton of heels. Only Gunther, who is likely not going for the world title any time soon, and should win once he does.

Gonna make another prediction and say that Damien Priest will cash in the MITB briefcase in the near future............ .on Sami Zayn and KO. Don't think they're going to break up the judgment day just yet, and this is a way to resolve the issues therein. Also may just make the tag titles seem like they're worth something. Meanwhile, Sami and KO can go on to do stuff as singles competitors, which would make more sense. Maybe Sami Zayn vs Nakamura?

That ending to the WHC title match was a mess.

Nakamura was moving and wide awake, didnt even look like he sold the curb stomp and yet ate the 3 count pin lol.

It looked like they screwed up the finish at least from the way they reacted after the match.

Also so dumb of them to make the aftermath attack offscreen and a "Digital exclusive".



BasilZero said:

CM Punk screwed CM Punk.

Dude didnt even need to confront anyone directly.

As the veteran and supposed locker room leader of the Collision show, he should have behaved himself and not confronted anyone. Lead by example. He absolutely screwed himself, and everyone else as well.

Last edited by No_Name_Needed - on 03 September 2023

BasilZero said:

CM Punk screwed CM Punk.

Dude didnt even need to confront anyone directly.

Depends on if he wanted to be there or not. If he didn't want to be there he really didn't screw himself. Who needed who more? 

BasilZero said:
JWeinCom said:

Call me crazy, but I think Shinsuke Nakamura just might beat Seth Rollins and become Champion.

Considering the story, it would make sense for Seth to lose due to his back injury. If he actually needs time off take it. Then wonder if he can come back and make a heroic return yada yada. A heel champion makes a bit more sense on Raw atm, because outside of the Judgment Day there really aren't a ton of heels. Only Gunther, who is likely not going for the world title any time soon, and should win once he does.

Gonna make another prediction and say that Damien Priest will cash in the MITB briefcase in the near future............ .on Sami Zayn and KO. Don't think they're going to break up the judgment day just yet, and this is a way to resolve the issues therein. Also may just make the tag titles seem like they're worth something. Meanwhile, Sami and KO can go on to do stuff as singles competitors, which would make more sense. Maybe Sami Zayn vs Nakamura?

That ending to the WHC title match was a mess.

Nakamura was moving and wide awake, didnt even look like he sold the curb stomp and yet ate the 3 count pin lol.

It looked like they screwed up the finish at least from the way they reacted after the match.

Also so dumb of them to make the aftermath attack offscreen and a "Digital exclusive".

It was odd, but I don't know that it was screwed up.

To me it looked like Nakamura was tying to sell it as if he was dazed and just completely out of it. I don't think he was supposed to kick out. The event was already running a bit past 11 by that point and the stomp is fairly well protected. It'd be a bit late to kick out of a finisher imo. I feel maybe more like they were told to go home before they really wanted to. Shinsuke in particular looked really unhappy afterwards. Of course, he would have been in character anyway, but it seemed legit.

I didn't even know there was a post match attack. Definitely a weird choice to make it a digital exclusive.



JWeinCom said:

Well, the CM Punk era in AEW is done. Not going to bother recapping the details. I largely sympathize with CM Punk. But, the industry isn't what it used to be. If Crash Holly had thrown shade at the Undertaker in the attitude era, there was definitely gonna be some physical consequence. But, in this day and age, if you put your hands on someone backstage, deserved or not, probably gonna get fired. Especially if it's a second time. But I'm not sure Punk really cares. For better or worse, Punk has always been a person who cares more about being right than getting along. If he was going to make it in AEW he was going to have deal with barbs and jabs and the occasional disrespect. He wasn't willing to put up with it. Maybe he should have been.

Fair to say that in the end the CM Punk experiment didn't work. This really should have been a slam dunk for all involved, but they couldn't get everyone on the same page.

I want CM Punk to come back to the WWE. Cut a promo saying people think he doesn't know when to apologize. But that he does. Then go on to do a string of apologies. To Vince McMahon, to the wonderful doctors of the WWE. Then, to the greatest pro wrestler of all time... HHH. Say that he deeply regrets that they were never able to work together at Wrestlemania, but now he wants to be able to work under such a true visionary.

Essentially make him the biggest schill in the fucking world. Then, turn him from CM Punk to GM Punk. Have him basically play HHH's authority character. He will be the most hated man in the industry by far. When he uses the phrase "best for business" there would be nuclear heat. It would be fucking glorious.

Couple things.

For starters, your Crash Holly/Undertaker comparison is... inaccurate and that's putting it delicately. That's implying that Undertaker is viewed in the same negative light and disdain as Punk is in AEW - which couldn't be further from the truth. By all accounts Undertaker is revered, respected, and admired by just about everyone who has ever worked w/ him and everyone who went through that WWE/WWF locker room while he was there damn near unanimously sings his praises and views him as THE leader, the voice of reason, a Man among men, and the Heart and Soul of that company. If Crash had done something like Perry did, he'd have been blasted, ribbed, and kicked out of that locker room and fired from the company on the spot. There's a reason he was always the judge in their "Wrestler's Court." When Taker said something, they ALL listened. And if someone messed him, they messed w/ ALL the boys. Because he earned that respect and admiration for who he is and how he conducted himself. Ironically enough, it was CM Punk of all people that actually DID throw some shade at Undertaker back when they both worked there. The story goes that while Punk was World Champion, Undertaker approached him about how he was dressed so casually, saying that he should dress more professionally since he's the champion and thus is representing the company and Punk basically brushed him off or retorted by using John Cena as an example. Gee, funny how life can come full circle like that.

CM Punk is NO Undertaker. Not even close.

Punk CLEARLY is not viewed in that same light in AEW. Or anywhere for that matter since I seriously doubt he'd be viewed much different, if at all, if he does go back to WWE. Vince, Triple H, Stephanie, Seth Rollins (and if Rollins wants nothing to do w/ him, chances are Becky doesn't either), Roman Reigns, and Kevin Owens all have beef with him, and that's just off the top of my head. And how about when he flew off the handle at The Miz over a tongue-and-cheek comment he made over "changing the culture" and he responded w/ "Go suck a blood money covered dick in Saudi Arabia, you fucking dork." And the reason for that? Because he was still butthurt over the fact that Miz main evented WrestleMania and he didn't.

Like, holy shit, dude! Let it go! Enough is enough! The dude holds on to grudges like he's dangling from a cliffside! 

CM Punk has nobody to blame but himself for how this all went down. If you view yourself as a locker room leader, you should know better than to fly off the handle and throw a tantrum like a child over something that is ultimately insignificant. And what makes it worse is that this is a repeated occurrence. Before Jack Perry, there was Ryan Neymeth and the "softest man alive" tweet. Before Ryan Neymeth, there was Moxley and "fragile ego, fragile mind, fragile body" line. Before there was Moxley, there was Jericho and his "cancer to the Locker Room" line. Before there was Jericho, there was Kenny and the Bucks. Before there was Kenny and the Bucks, there was Hangman. And when he came back this year, on a random night after Collision went off the air - the show that was made FOR him and where Tony bent over backwards to give him creative control and divide the roster so he wouldn't have to see the Elite. Out of the blue, he has to take ANOTHER shot at Hangman over something off-script Hangman said in a shoot promo a year and a half ago. Like, FFS man, it's over and done with! Move on!

Whether or not Perry deserved it is irrelevant, like I said if you view yourself as a locker room leader, you simply cannot react like that and you CERTAINLY cannot put your hands on them and MOST DEFINITELY cannot attempt to assault your boss. And Perry's comments weren't just addressed to Punk, it was also Tony Schiavane, Tony Khan himself, and others who told him not to use real glass. And he should be punished if he went against orders, but you don't go up to the dude's face and sucker punch him. None of the others reacted that way, he has no excuse to do so.

The man is unhinged. For a guy who made a career and legacy off of shooting and going off script on people, the moment someone else does the same to him, all Hell breaks loose and he throws a fit. He can dish it, but he can't take it.

That is not a leader, that is a bully.

And if anyone think he's going to just magically change going back to WWE, the very place where, by his own words, "got him sick in the first place." (And that ain't the only shot he has taken at them since he came back two years ago), then I've got a bridge in San Francisco to sell them. At 44 years old, Phil Brooks is who he is. A narcissistic, want-to-be martyr who NEEDS to be right about everything and it's always Him vs. the World. Sure, it may be great for the first couple of months during the Honeymoon phase where he's back in the Fed, he's going to all the events and autograph signings, smiling for the camera, and Michael Cole is putting him over like the good ole days. But the man is a ticking time bomb. As soon as that Honeymoon phase is over. All it's going to take is ONE thing, just ONE little inconvenience to set him off and we'll be right back here talking about him and his attitude and ego all over again. Tony Khan should have cut ties with him last year, but didn't, and look what happened. He brought him back at his own peril, and if WWE/Endeavor does the same, they do so at THEIR own peril too.

We can talk about how people like The Elite, Tony Khan, Jack Perry, etc. share blame in how this whole thing unfolded, which they do. But at the end of the day, one man is the common denominator in ALL of it.

CM Punk is his own worst enemy. And everything that has happened to him, he has nobody to blame but himself.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 03 September 2023