By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

Tagged games:

 

What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
Jumpin said:
JWeinCom said:

Runa216 said:

Errr... have you been... watching AEW?

Not wasting talent... Here are some of the people who won't be wrestling at All Out. Adam Page, Andrade, Brian Cage, Brian Pilman Junior, FTR, Joey Janela (for the best in that case), Lance Archer, Malakai Black (because why would you want to push these recent signings on PPVs), PAC (who honestly should have been fired for that match with Orange Cassidy), All of the Inner Circle guys besides Jericho, all of the Pinnacle besides MJF, Sonny Kiss (which I'm fine with, but apparently Cody was trying to make him a star), and so on. 

And of course not everyone could be on a PPV, but some of these really stick out. Malakai Black was supposedly a big signing, but couldn't make it on the card. Andrade signed three months ago and is already lost in the shuffle. There are a ton of people who are not being used while QT Marshall gets a a spot (Big Show is a legend who could be useful in getting a young big guy over and Cody's little buddy is the one you're going to book him against? FFS), and they have guys coming in from New Japan (no offense to them, but get your build your own guys first. Aside from that, the people on the card are at least mostly decent (aside from Statlander who I initially she liked because hot, but she is going to hurt someone, Jericho who is getting sad to watch, and Orange Cassidy who is literally a joke), but most of those guys were treated as big deals when they came in, and now are doing nothing but being in the background in one of AEW's 15 different factions. Tony's daddy needs to tell him he won't buy him any new toys till he plays with the ones he has.

Speaking of Jericho, yeah someone should tell that. His match with Juventud was a reminder that time comes for us all. Almost as embarrassing as his epic fall onto a pile of pillows with cardboard on top of them. The Inner Circle looked like a way to get some young guys over, but it turns out it was actually a vehicle to prop up Jericho, which becomes a taller task each week as the Covid God is enjoying a little bit too much of the bubbly. 

And, I'd have to ask who is really significantly more over in in AEW than when they came in? Darby Allin for sure, maybe Jungle Boy, Britt Baker, and that's probably about it. Omega and the Young Bucks are still over with the people who already liked them, the ex WWE guys are more or less at the same level they were (Moxley was doing well at first but has cooled down significantly), and so on. 

For the great writing... you'll have to explain that one to me. I watch sporadically. In the time I have watched I've seen a feud start because one person broke another's arcade machine (which they were playing at ringside for some reason..?) which led to Miro being leg cuffed during a promo without noticing (wtf?), then a match where Kris Statlander coming out of a claw machine (cause it's a UFO catcher get it? Haha...), and Miro hitting someone with a clearly fake arcade cabinet (it didn't even have a screen or buttons).

The story with MJF and Jericho is that the Inner Circle were being total dicks, then MJF was added to the group, and then he was a bigger dick, and then while he was trying to take over that group he was secretly building another group (what was he going to do if he succeeded? Just be like "Hey Inner Circle, now that I'm your leader, here's the guys I was also forming a group with to kick your ass if this didn't work!"), and now I'm supposed to like Jericho because after he was being an asshole and jumping people and beating them down, the same thing happened to him? Didn't he just beat the fuck out of an old man a few weeks ago? Why the fuck am I supposed to be rooting for him? 

Cody was beat up by some British guy. Then he cuts a promo about how great America is because he had a half black baby with Brandi so racism was over I guess? Although the guy he was fighting was mixed race? So... ummm... huh?

And then there was the story with Don Callis and Kenny Omega. According to them they spent months preparing their dastardly plan to help Kenny Omega overcome Jon Moxley. Their plan was that Callis distracted the ref and passed a microphone to Kenny. So he could hit Moxley with it, which would create an audible THUNK that the ref somehow didn't notice. As good of a plan as George's Twix set up (IYKYK).

If there are some really good stories, you'll have to explain which ones those were, because I must have just been really unlucky and only seen the bad one.

And I completely don't get Kenny Omega. Like, I don't mean I don't like him (I don't), I mean I don't get why I'm supposed to like him, or dislike him, or feel any particular way about him. He's like a create a wrestler in a video game and the game asked "What traits should this character have?" and the Player said "Yes". He's supposed to be a threat, but he's also goofy and making crayon drawings of Wile Coyote Plans, and he's sometimes tough but also sometimes gets knocked on his ass by a little person... I really don't know what he's supposed to be.

And the wrestling is... kind of bad. It's a sequence of spots with little rhyme or reason. I tuned in for Punk and tuned out when Luchasaurus helped perform a double team Canadian destroyer on his own partner, which in addition to breaking all suspension of disbelief and being stupid unsafe, did not even end the match. This is typical of an AEW match, I'll watch and start getting into it, and something will happen to completely ruin the illusion (like Riho doing a snap suplex on Nyla rose for instance). 

As for building talent, idk. Pretty much everyone on the all out card got over elsewhere and are at the same level as they were at best. On the card, the only people who really got over in AEW are Darby, Britt Baker, and maybe Orange Cassidy. The rest of the people were about as over wherever they were as they were now.

AEW has what I will dub the Tem-tem effect. Where people are so upset with a franchise/company that they will completely ignore that the alternative sucks. 99% of the time when I hear praise about AEW, it's always in relation to WWE. I'll just grant for argument's sake that AEW is better than WWE. That doesn't mean it's any good, that just means there are two very sucky wrestling promotions. And as much as I love Daniel Bryan and CM Punk and think they'll do well there (I think they're smart enough to lay out their feuds and matches properly) I can't stomach 2 hours of Dynamite to see them, much less pay $50. AEW has foundational problems to work out that even signing guys like that won't help.

/rant

Seems like you're saying an awful lot (between this post and the others) about something you claim to only watch sporadically. You sound much more like a jilted ex-employee on the production staff than a fan of pro-wrestling.

Anyway, if the behind the scenes is as bad as you're claiming, then I like the show all the more. I like that they're doing this all without some rigid corporate production pipeline that takes itself WAY too seriously. It's sort of the "casual Fridays Attitude era" feeling of the show that I like.

And the reason why people compare AEW to WWE should be pretty fucking obvious, WWE has been synonymous with pro wrestling since it was called WWF. Speaking for myself, I didn't start watching AEW because I was frustrated with WWE. Last I watched WWE was two and a half or three and a half years ago -- I was bored with the product and the WWE network authentication was buggy. I started watching AEW because CM Punk showed up on Rampage... it really had nothing to do with some kind of reaction against WWE.

I watched a few shows, some interviews with those who made an impression on me, and liked what I saw. I'm going to keep watching.

Let's say I'm a jilted former employee. Has no bearing on whether or not what I'm saying is accurate. But if you saw the product the last couple of weeks after punk debuted, and you enjoyed it for what it is, then keep on enjoying it. Some people are fans of stunt show style wrestling. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 05 September 2021

Around the Network

My thoughts on AEW All Out (2021):

Pre-Show - Jurassic Express and Best Friends vs. The Hardy Family Office and The Hybrid 2: Solid pre-show match. Very fast-paced, lots of action for the time they got. Pretty much the expected result. A good pre-show opener to get the crowd ready for the main card. B-

TNT Championship: Miro vs. Eddie Kingston: A very strong way to start the show. A hard-hitting, heavyweight bout between two tanks that could move. The crowd was VERY much behind Eddie Kingston and wanted him to win the title BADLY. And he came very close at some points, even escaping Game Over, they did enough (at least for me) to make you think Kingston might actually win the title. But Miro, the dastardly Heel that he is, uses the ref distraction to give a low blow and get the win. A very solid and strong opener to get things started. B

Jon Moxley vs. Satoshi Kojima: Much like the opener, this was a hard-hitting, physical match. Kojima, at 50 years old, can still hang with the best of 'em. He's not the main event star he once was, but he's still got it! These guys didn't have as much time as they probably could have had to have a better match. But for what it was, it was a good contest. B-

(Post-Match: HOLY FUCKING SHIT! MINORU FUCKING SUZUKI! HELL YES!!! Dynamite is going to be in Cincinnati, Moxley's hometown, and they already advertised a match with him and Suzuki on the show. That is going to be AWESOME!)

AEW Women's Championship: Dr. Britt Baker D.M.D. vs. Kris Statlander: These two had a very stellar match. They both looked great and like they had solid chemistry together. Statlander is good in the ring and Baker has come a very long way from where she was when she first started in AEW. These two were really pulling out some big moves and got some good near falls. And this was the most emotional we have EVER gotten out of Orange Cassidy in all the time he has been in AEW, X'D. In the end, the right woman won. Britt retained, but Statlander looked strong in defeat. A very good match that shows that the Women's Division is continuing its upward trend. B+

Steel Cage Match for the AEW Tag Team Championships: The Young Bucks vs. The Lucha Bros.: This match. This. Fucking. Match. HO-LY SHIT! If this is not the best Tag Team match in AEW history (Bucks vs. Omega/Hangman), this is #2. This match was FUCKING INCREDIBLE!!! They told the old, tried and true story of the arrogant, asshole, sadistic heels vs. the underdog, sympathetic, fighting babyfaces BEAUTIFULLY!!! The Lucha Bros got their asses KICKED in this match. There were points in this match where I was like "Jesus, guys! This is a bit much, don't you think?!?" But they hung in there, they fought back valiantly. The crowd was behind them 110%. They were going 1000 MPH as they built to the finish. And in the end, the Babyfaces, despite it all, stood tall and we have NEW AEW TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS!!! I'm gonna need some time to decide whether or not this is the greatest Tag Team match in AEW history, because that match with Omega and Hangman was fucking fantastic, I'll have to watch THAT again to compare. (And what's the common denominator for both these matches?) Absolutely BRILLIANT! A+

21-woman Casino Battle Royale for a shot at the AEW Women's Championship: Boy, I sure got this one wrong in terms of the winner. XD But this is a case where I'm happy to be wrong. I'm glad they didn't go with Thunder Rosa here. Don't get me wrong, I love her. She's awesome. But it's not time to go back to her and Britt Baker just yet. They still need to build to that slowly, take their time with it. Rosa will be fine, give her someone to feud with and big matches to win to build her up and give Britt a longer and more established reign. Then once we get to the new year, THEN we start going back to that! But for now, just keep them apart and build them up separately. And I'm also pretty happy with the winner here. In one night, they have immediately made a new star and top player in that Women's Division. Ruby Soho will be a big shot in the arm for that division which has slowly but surely been on the rise for the last year. If the Women's Division can continue to grow and raise its game, ESPECIALLY if it can get close to the Tag Team Division... OHHHHH BOY! As for the Battle Royale itself, well as far as Battle Royale's go, it's about what you'd expect. The finish is what really brought it up and made a good one. B

Chris Jericho vs. MJF, if Jericho loses, he must retire from in-ring competition in AEW: If you watch this match and think Chris Jericho can't go anymore or is a shell of himself, you need to get your eyes checked. Yes, he's put on some weight, he's not as agile and springy as he used to be. But he can still go out there and put on a great match like he did tonight. Especially when you give him a great opponent to work with and in AEW, it doesn't get much better than MJF. He is just a natural as a Heel and he is a master at selling and facial expressions. As soon as I saw him sell the back, I knew they were building to the Walls of Jericho. Wardlow and Jake Hager was a nice touch. I was caught off guard by the false finish, (And it looked like Jericho was cutting it VERY close there.) but it was done very well. And the Inner Circle celebrating with their triumphant leader was a great way to cap off the end of this feud... Assuming this is the end... Hopefully. B+

CM Punk vs. Darby Allin: This was THE match that everyone was looking forward to. And if there's one problem I have with this show, it's that this match should have been the Main Event. (Although given what happened AFTER the Main Event, I certainly can't blame them for going that direction.) CM Punk in his very first match in 7 1/2 years facing Darby Allin... And he looked like he never left! These two went in here and just had a great wrestling match. I wish they had gone a little longer and I still don't like the idea of having Darby lose, I would've gone with the time limit draw (Which I knew wasn't going to happen as soon as they announced the 60 minute time limit.) But you also can't beat Punk in his first match in 7 1/2 years in his own hometown. And I love how they handled the post-match stuff! Even though Punk was the winner, the spotlight was still on Darby Allin. He looked strong in defeat in what was the biggest match of his life thus far and he'll be fine. A very great match. 2nd best on the card in my view. Welcome back, CM Punk!!! A-

Paul Wight vs. QT Marshall: The piss-break match. 3 minutes, in and out. Paul Wight got the win. Not much else to say. C

AEW Championship: Kenny Omega vs. Christian Cage: The crowd was mostly dead for part of this main event, after a freaking awesome PPV with the matches we've had thus far they didn't have much energy left. They were able to get them back towards the end and these two put together a worthy world title bout. Kenny went over, as we expected, but that Avalanche One-Winged Angel was awesome! A very good match between two great wrestlers, but it was brought down somewhat by a beat crowd, which made for a kind of flat main event. B

(Post-match: WHAT A WAY TO CLOSE THE SHOW! As soon as the entire Elite came down and started to beat up Christian, a gigantic smile graced my face and I got so hyped because I KNEW what was coming! I started CLAMORING for Final Countdown and Bryan. I started chanted YES! YES! YES! And when the lights went out, I nearly jumped out of my chair! "OH SHIT, THIS IS IT!" And imagine my shock and surprise seeing ADAM COLE BAY-BAY walk out?!? THANK GOD he made the right choice and went to AEW! And then immediately floored and kinda deflated when he turned Heel and joined his Elite buddies. Will be interesting to see how they explain THAT considering how they killed him when he left ROH. And THEN they got BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON! No Final Countdown, that's the only bummer. But HOLY SHIT! CM Punk?!? Bryan Danielson?!? Adam Cole?!? Imagine all the fucking possibilities!!!)

Final Thoughts: In my opinion, this is the best show AEW has ever done. And that's a GREAT thing too. With CM Punk and the rumors about Bryan Danielson, this will probably break their record for the highest PPV buy rate. With more eyes and more attention on them than ever before, this show absolutely NEEDED to deliver. And man DID IT FUCKING DELIVER!!! I have to think about where this might rank on my list of all time PPVs, but it's up there! This is the PPV of the year so far. And if there's a PPV that can top this one, OH SHIT, I can't wait to see THAT one! But for AEW specifically? This was their WrestleMania 17. This was their grand showing. After this show, it feels like the tide is turning in wrestling and AEW's momentum is just building. Getting bigger and bigger like a snowball rolling down a mountain. If they can keep up this growth and momentum. There's no telling how big they can become!

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 06 September 2021

All Out last night was a great PPV. Worth the time, worth the money. It's going to be real tough to top it.



No_Name_Needed said:

All Out last night was a great PPV. Worth the time, worth the money. It's going to be real tough to top it.

Personally, I find it hard to justify spending 50 bucks on any PPV. I think that's probably the biggest thing AEW would have to change for me to watch. Form a deal with some kind of streaming service to include PPVs in their content. Can't see myself paying 50 bucks for any PPV event, and the days when I had enough friends who all loved wrestling and all had 4 consecutive free hours on a Sunday are long gone. 



JWeinCom said:
No_Name_Needed said:

All Out last night was a great PPV. Worth the time, worth the money. It's going to be real tough to top it.

Personally, I find it hard to justify spending 50 bucks on any PPV. I think that's probably the biggest thing AEW would have to change for me to watch. Form a deal with some kind of streaming service to include PPVs in their content. Can't see myself paying 50 bucks for any PPV event, and the days when I had enough friends who all loved wrestling and all had 4 consecutive free hours on a Sunday are long gone. 

Uh, OK. I actually saw it, it was a great PPV and worth the money to me and that's what matters. If you can't see yourself spending $50, that's perfectly fine, but like I said what AEW presented last night was worth it to me (and others it seems based on reactions so far).



Around the Network

My thoughts on All Out rough and short

I mean, look how excited she is. That about describes the feelings of everyone watching the show.


* It had the matches of something that felt like a cross between 2016-19-NXT Takeover and 1990s FMW, two of my favourite brands of all time.
* The brutality and strong style wrestling of FMW - this event felt visceral, like an Asuka kick to the face.
* The “What the fuck is going to happen next” of an Attitude era RAW show — because that’s where the surprises happened, the PPVs were not that great in the AE until around the tail-end in 2001-2002 of the Attitude era - with a few exceptions like the Terri Runnels tag team bout, Taker vs Foley HoaC, Angle vs Jericho vs Benoit at Wrestlemania 2000, triangle ladder match also at WM2000, and Foley vs Triple H at Royal Rumble 2000.
* It had the crowds of ECW and NXT combined in greater numbers - holy SHIT were they were loud.
* One of my favourite wrestlers from the last 10 years debuted - Ruby… Soho? I loved the Riott Squad and now Ruby is in AEW. And holy fuck, the reception she got was nuts. I really hope Logan and Morgan make it over.
* CM Punk vs Darby Allin wasn’t bad, I was worried Punk was going to royally fuck up Brie Bella style, but everything was solid. So the match had me on the edge of my seat.
* Everyone was too happy to contain their smiles on the show, how could they not be? If you’re a fan of wrestlers, damn, what a fucking show.

How does it compare to others? I’ve seen a lot of wrestling PPVs and there’s not one show I can think of that compares other than the bits and pieces. But damn! What a light after these last few years.

It really feels like the dawn of a new era. Historic feeling. I don’t know if it’s the greatest of all time, but it’s my favourite. The moment reminds me of (the later forever tarnished moment) when Benoit and Guerrero won the titles.

Also, what a way to end the show,

And for those who want to listen a bit more about the event. The post-PPV press event - multiple videos, so I put them in the spoiler box.

Spoiler!

Last edited by Jumpin - on 06 September 2021

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

No_Name_Needed said:
JWeinCom said:

Personally, I find it hard to justify spending 50 bucks on any PPV. I think that's probably the biggest thing AEW would have to change for me to watch. Form a deal with some kind of streaming service to include PPVs in their content. Can't see myself paying 50 bucks for any PPV event, and the days when I had enough friends who all loved wrestling and all had 4 consecutive free hours on a Sunday are long gone. 

Uh, OK. I actually saw it, it was a great PPV and worth the money to me and that's what matters. If you can't see yourself spending $50, that's perfectly fine, but like I said what AEW presented last night was worth it to me (and others it seems based on reactions so far).

You should note that I started with the word personally. Just giving thoughts on the overall business model. If you got your money's worth, then I'm legitimately glad you enjoyed it. 



JWeinCom said:
No_Name_Needed said:

Uh, OK. I actually saw it, it was a great PPV and worth the money to me and that's what matters. If you can't see yourself spending $50, that's perfectly fine, but like I said what AEW presented last night was worth it to me (and others it seems based on reactions so far).

You should note that I started with the word personally. Just giving thoughts on the overall business model. If you got your money's worth, then I'm legitimately glad you enjoyed it. 

Yes I did notice that, my response was not intended to come across as abrasive or antagonistic, just also giving my personal opinion as well.



No_Name_Needed said:
JWeinCom said:

You should note that I started with the word personally. Just giving thoughts on the overall business model. If you got your money's worth, then I'm legitimately glad you enjoyed it. 

Yes I did notice that, my response was not intended to come across as abrasive or antagonistic, just also giving my personal opinion as well.

Alright, no harm no foul then. I was just thinking about that because I would love to see Daniel Bryan  Bryan Dainelson's matches in the future, but not enough to spend $50 and it bums me out a bit.



Like I said, AEW is a combination of all the things I like in wrestling. Good matches, good stories, characters that feel believable while still being larger than life, respect for the fans, and a good balance of technical, high-flying, and hardcore styles.

This was a damn-near perfect PPV from top to bottom. Not a single slip-up in the entire thing.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android