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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4Pro Has A GPU Feature That Improves PSVR

zero129 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

"If thats the case Indie devs have already been pushing VR games forward by trying new things and bringing new experiences to the devices."

If they were we'd be hearing more about it, instead right now we're hearing more about PSVR.

 

"But if the hardware doesnt sell devs will jump ship just like with 3D on PS3. Sony talked that up big time with how every game going forword would have 3D support etc."

PS3 still support 3D games and 3D bluray movies, it is up to game developers to make more. By the way, the PS3 hardware sold lots, something like 86mil worldwide.

PS4 also supports 3D bluray, and games. Ex: Trine, Trine 2: Complete Story, Zen Pinball 2, KickBeat, Fez, Sniper Elite III, Sniper Elite IV, Zombie Army Trilogy, Super Stardust Ultra, Daylight, CastleStorm Definitive Edition, Trine 3: The Artifacts of Power.


You must not really pay attention to the PC Vr space if you did then you would be hearing it more .

 

Honestly at the moment the only game worth hearing about is EVE Valkyrie, and it's multiplat, nothing else really seem to push me to get a VR.



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Open platforming have helped PC so much that only when consoles made themselves closer to PC and simplified porting they got more AAA games, but for some reason all these immense number of VR PCs that already bought the headset are setting the world on fire right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:
Open platforming have helped PC so much that only when consoles made themselves closer to PC and simplified porting they got more AAA games, but for some reason all these immense number of VR PCs that already bought the headset are setting the world on fire right?

PC has always had AAA games from back in the nes days so what exactly are you trying to say?.

Unless you have the silly idea that only console games can be AAA games. In fact things are the other way around. Its thanks to consoles coming closer to PC that they got some of their biggest games that where originally PC exclusive such as CoD, Fallout etc.

I just love how you have been demisive of everyone in here so far.

Yep, PC have had AAA games, but curiously it was tough dead for so many years with ludicrous sales right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SvennoJ said:

Forgive me due to lack of technology and internet due to weather knocking out all technology in my state for several days... Do you have a reliable source with that information?

And since when have we degraded to the point of using flops as a measurement for clockspeed? Like seriously?
Extrapolate the real clocks. It's not hard. It's Shaders * 2 * Clockrate. Go.

Link http://bfy.tw/7xlY
5.5tf / (1152*2) = 2.38 ghz! That's a toasty gpu.
And yes I'm not serious

:P

SvennoJ said:

Odd, I'm using one right now :p Not in the same ballpark?
Vive 1080x1200 per eye, Pentile, 1,296,000 pixels 2,592,000 sub pixels per eye, 110 degrees fov, 22ms latency, 90hz
PSVR 960x1080 per eye, RGB, 1,036,800 pixels 3,110,400 sub pixels per eye, 100 degrees fov, 18ms latency, supports 60 (reprojected to 120), 90 and 120hz
Seems very much in the same ballpark.

PC isn't complicated to use, that's you twisting my words again, it's more work to get and setup properly than a ps4 + psvr is what I said. I have no idea how move will work with psvr but it worked really well with table tennis and tumble so I'm not too worried about it.

Btw I just finished the way yesterday, it was awesome, play it if you like puzzle platformers. It's on sale now. I backed it so got to promote it :)

"Reprojection" isn't a magic bullet. The reason for it's entire existence is because the Playstation's hardware is extremely limited, which is the same reason checkerboard exists.

It's a similar premise to the "motion" technology that many TV's have, where "fake" frames are inserted between two frames to simulate a higher framerate... And let's be honest, in person it's always looked a little "off".

PC VR is the place to be, you can have all the graphics effects dialed up to 11, you can downsample, you have the best anti-aliasing possible and you are not restricted to any framerates...
PSVR is no where near being in the same ballpark. It's good, but it's not the best.

The PC is also likely to have the most VR-supported games, thanks to modders and patches costing devs nothing.

zero129 said:

If you dont see vive or Oculus doing it PSVR is not going to do it.

In fact the only way i see VR becoming proper mainstream is on Mobile phones.

Fact is imo PC and Console VR is going to be a niche market (Wont be too bad for PC thanks to it being open platform sucks when VR support gets dropped with devs on PS4 thanks to low sales). But Mobile is where it will explode. Hell mobile VR can already do AR and VR in the one device.

You can use your mobile VR device on your PC and maybe even in the future on your consoles. Mobile VR has come on leaps and bounds since it first came out and best thing is if you plan on buying a good mobile phone this year your going to have 80% of the VR hardware already in your hands.

I highly doubt VR will ever go mainstream on console or PC... It all comes down to costs, it's a hard pill for anyone to swallow dropping hundreds of bucks on an accessory.

setsunatenshi said:

The Vive is really great, but the PC is lacking the real AAA experiences that the PS4 will get, and that's the advantage of having a major 1st party supporting the platform. Now the big kicker is... Sony has mentioned before they are looking into PC support for the PSVR. If that comes to fruition, HTC and Facebook might as well just pack their bags and call it a day.

 

PS: mobile VR is pretty terrible for anything that isn't simply watching videos/movies

Just because you are unaware of what games are on the PC, doesn't mean that it is lacking AAA experiences.

Every platform has exclusives... And you know what? The PC usually has the best multiplats as they typically have better graphics, framerates and at a lower price.

The PC as a platform is still growing, it's got more gamers than the PS4 and Xbox One and Wii U combined right now.

GribbleGrunger said:

He's joking but could you expand on your last point, please?

On how flops are calcuted?

Take the PS4's 1152 shaders... 2 instructions... 800mhz Clockrate... For 1.84 Teraflops.
But it also ignores the rest of the graphics processor and system so it's not an accurate representation of a devices total performance.



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DonFerrari said:
zero129 said:

PC has always had AAA games from back in the nes days so what exactly are you trying to say?.

Unless you have the silly idea that only console games can be AAA games. In fact things are the other way around. Its thanks to consoles coming closer to PC that they got some of their biggest games that where originally PC exclusive such as CoD, Fallout etc.

I just love how you have been demisive of everyone in here so far.

Yep, PC have had AAA games, but curiously it was tough dead for so many years with ludicrous sales right?

Yup, he turns eveything into a PC thread. I dont even bother anymore. 



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Intrinsic said:

Yup, he turns eveything into a PC thread. I dont even bother anymore. 

I'll say the same thing I said to Zero recently. Keep it in on topic, or at least try to understand why someone thinks a certain way before dismissing their posts. This type of comment could have been left at a PM.

This goes for everyone, not just Intrinsic.



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Pemalite said:
SvennoJ said:

Vive 1080x1200 per eye, Pentile, 1,296,000 pixels 2,592,000 sub pixels per eye, 110 degrees fov, 22ms latency, 90hz
PSVR 960x1080 per eye, RGB, 1,036,800 pixels 3,110,400 sub pixels per eye, 100 degrees fov, 18ms latency, supports 60 (reprojected to 120), 90 and 120hz
Seems very much in the same ballpark.

"Reprojection" isn't a magic bullet. The reason for it's entire existence is because the Playstation's hardware is extremely limited, which is the same reason checkerboard exists.

It's a similar premise to the "motion" technology that many TV's have, where "fake" frames are inserted between two frames to simulate a higher framerate... And let's be honest, in person it's always looked a little "off".

PC VR is the place to be, you can have all the graphics effects dialed up to 11, you can downsample, you have the best anti-aliasing possible and you are not restricted to any framerates...
PSVR is no where near being in the same ballpark. It's good, but it's not the best.

The PC is also likely to have the most VR-supported games, thanks to modders and patches costing devs nothing

As far as I understand it, it's a lot more simple than "motion flow" and the like. psvr is simply shifting the image a bit based on the latest headtracking information. Everything still moves at 60fps, yet headtracking positioning is corrected at 120hz to help combat motion sickness. I don't know whether they render a slightly bigger frame or smudge out the edges, need to see it in person.
No clue if it will look a little "off", I never use motion flow, 24p mode for me :) Yet when you turn your head you want the screen to stay stable, so 120hz is best I would imagine. PSVR can do native 90hz too btw.

PC VR is restricted to 90hz (for now), perhaps ps4 pro can do native 120hz in some games. But sure, you can add as much rendering grunt as you want on PC and downsample from 5210x2160, although tough to render that at locked 90fps.

The place where they are really not in the same ballpark is store presence and price. I checked for Canada, an OR setup from scratch will cost you CAD 2500 and up. (And that's not one you'll be supersampling with nor use ultra settings) While the most expensive psvr combo will cost you CAD 1200 or get started at CAD 1000 for ps4 base + headset + camera. (No HTC Vive announced yet here, Amazon.ca offers it for CAD 1700)
(If you already have a capable PC or ps4, it's CAD 850 vs CAD 550/700)

I don't expect either to sell a lot at those prices.

PC will have the most supported games, yet there's a difference between patched or modded VR capabilities and designed for VR. DriveClub is touted as the best VR racing experience yet, a lot of effort went into retooling the game for VR. Sony seems interested for now to nudge developers into designing specific VR experiences, but there's always the risk they'll lose interest again like with 3D and Move. (Although VR is bringing those back)

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/16/12939356/driveclub-vr-preview-tgs-2016
And while competing VR racing games on PC do have an edge in terms of absolute resolution and detail, PS VR's RGB-stripe display means Driveclub VR has an overall cleaner appearance than racing games I've played on the Vive and Rift.
It's a trade off. There is no ultimate VR experience yet, way too early.



Pemalite said:

setsunatenshi said:

The Vive is really great, but the PC is lacking the real AAA experiences that the PS4 will get, and that's the advantage of having a major 1st party supporting the platform. Now the big kicker is... Sony has mentioned before they are looking into PC support for the PSVR. If that comes to fruition, HTC and Facebook might as well just pack their bags and call it a day.

 

PS: mobile VR is pretty terrible for anything that isn't simply watching videos/movies

Just because you are unaware of what games are on the PC, doesn't mean that it is lacking AAA experiences.

Every platform has exclusives... And you know what? The PC usually has the best multiplats as they typically have better graphics, framerates and at a lower price.

The PC as a platform is still growing, it's got more gamers than the PS4 and Xbox One and Wii U combined right now.


I've been a PC gamer since 1998, I know perfectly well what games are on PC.

Not trying to be a dick here, but I will quote myself once again to see if you get my point:

"the PC is lacking the real AAA experiences that the PS4 will get, and that's the advantage of having a major 1st party supporting the platform."

 I'm speaking mostly about 1st party games that Sony will push to support the VR platform. There aren't many AAA VR games for now in general, but the ones that will be coming out are for now PSVR exclusive.

 

So, yeah... I love my PC and can't even fathom playing certain types of games on a console, but we've got to be realistic here. VR success is linked to PSVR, not PCVR right now.



setsunatenshi said:

So, yeah... I love my PC and can't even fathom playing certain types of games on a console, but we've got to be realistic here. VR success is linked to PSVR, not PCVR right now.

You can see into the definite written in stone future?. That's a pretty bold assumption to make. What about mobile VR and how huge that market is?.



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setsunatenshi said:

I've been a PC gamer since 1998, I know perfectly well what games are on PC.

Not trying to be a dick here, but I will quote myself once again to see if you get my point:

"the PC is lacking the real AAA experiences that the PS4 will get, and that's the advantage of having a major 1st party supporting the platform."


But it's also not true. Because the PC will get all the console exclusives anyway. It's a matter of when, not if.


setsunatenshi said:

 I'm speaking mostly about 1st party games that Sony will push to support the VR platform. There aren't many AAA VR games for now in general, but the ones that will be coming out are for now PSVR exclusive.

 

So, yeah... I love my PC and can't even fathom playing certain types of games on a console, but we've got to be realistic here. VR success is linked to PSVR, not PCVR right now.

VR is not going to go mainstream untill it hits a low enough entry price, it's not low enough even with the PS4VR.

There is potential for sales to go gang-busters in the future though which is what these company's are betting on.

SvennoJ said:

As far as I understand it, it's a lot more simple than "motion flow" and the like. psvr is simply shifting the image a bit based on the latest headtracking information. Everything still moves at 60fps, yet headtracking positioning is corrected at 120hz to help combat motion sickness. I don't know whether they render a slightly bigger frame or smudge out the edges, need to see it in person.
No clue if it will look a little "off", I never use motion flow, 24p mode for me :) Yet when you turn your head you want the screen to stay stable, so 120hz is best I would imagine. PSVR can do native 90hz too btw.

PC VR is restricted to 90hz (for now), perhaps ps4 pro can do native 120hz in some games. But sure, you can add as much rendering grunt as you want on PC and downsample from 5210x2160, although tough to render that at locked 90fps.

I am aware that there is more to reprojection than that, but I was also trying to keep it simple, this forum isn't exactly filled with the most tech-savvy enthusiasts I have ever seen.
It's also still not as good as a native solution either.

I am *really* interested in how the scene will evolve in the PC space, because modders from all corners are lifting their heads and taking notice.



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