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Forums - Politics Discussion - If You are going to vote please watch this

Dunban67 said:
SkepticallyMinded said:

I see. So if someone disagrees with you they are a sheep? Sound argument, I am completely convinced by this recalcitrance. 

no- not what i m saying at all-   go back and read my posts-  

You do not appear to be expressing yourself as well as you think. A one sentence reply isn't ceding much information. Perhaps in the future try to explicate your thoughts instead of making rather ambiguous comments that could be taken a great many ways.



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SkepticallyMinded said:
Dunban67 said:

no- not what i m saying at all-   go back and read my posts-  

You do not appear to be expressing yourself as well as you think. A one sentence reply isn't ceding much information. Perhaps in the future try to explicate your thoughts instead of making rather ambiguous comments that could be taken a great many ways.

if you are talking about my post above that you are quoting,  it is pretty simple- not sure whst i can add but il try:

I respect peoples opinion, differing or not if  they seem to have some sincerety attached to them-  if their opinions seem to be their own, not just parroting the crowd/someone else, if the basis of their opinion does not seem to be built on a foundation of headlines, talking points and lableing and if they seem to have the willingness and desire to think critically/independently 

If you are refering to something else, let me know



ArnoldRimmer said:
I find it ridiculous how the mass media and many common people are more and more calling absolutely everything a "conspiracy". A few days ago, when the video of Hillary being thrown into a van like a bag of potatoes became public, the german mass media called all doubts regarding Hillary's health "conspiracy theories". Each and every single article I read about it used that phrase. But where's the conspiracy in believing that Hillary is not completely honest about her health, in order to improve her chances of winning? That's just ridiculous.
                                

I guess we shouldn t  forget Hillary s "vast right wing conspiracy"  that she used to talk about so much  or her campaigns "birther" conspiracy they initiated and made popular when she was running against Obamah-   Over her Pol career she seemed to have an affinity for them



sundin13 said:

Theres a key difference between those sources and the Infowars source. There is no direct evidence of anything quid pro quo. Its all circumstancial. Tons of people donated to the Clinton Foundation and got nothing out of it too. Now of course there are conflicts of interest (and if Hillary were to become president, her and Bill should also step away from the Clinton Foundation), but again, they get no money from the Clinton Foundation (the talks they do get money from, but thats a bit of a different beast). I believe these conflicts of interest are on a different level of magnitude.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/08/23/experts-new-clinton-state-dept-emails-show-donor-access-not-favors/89118156/

However, as I've stated before, the nature of Trump's Business involves him personally making a lot of money from foreign sources (without even considering how is domestic decisions could affect his business). That is also a clear conflict of interest. While Trump hasn't been given a chance yet to see how he would act in a political situation, I don't think that should excuse him of the danger that comes with these conflicts of interest.

I think its fair to have disagreements over whos conflicts of interest are more significant as that isn't anything objective. I personally believe donations to charity are less of a conflict than money in the pocket, but thats just me. At the core of the issue however is that both Clinton and Trump have unprecedented, large conflicts of interest, both of which are worrying. 

Nope, not all of it is circumstantial! There's an email from George Soros that instructed how the Secretary of State at the time (Clinton) was to deal with the unrest in Albania and she followed. Although I wish I knew what exactly was going on in that billionaire's mind ... 

Muhammad Yunus (Clinton Foundation donor) was granted $13 million dollars from the former Secretary of State and then she intervened with the Bangladesh government on behalf of Muhammad during an investigation against him. A massive and blatant example of conflict of interest due to cronyism if you ask me ... 

Depending on your definition of "a lot", his income from licensing his name isn't even in the double digit by the millions!

I'd be more inclined to believe your proposal that LARGE conflict's of interests would arise with him if well y'know these foreign partnerships ACTUALLY made a substantial portion of Trump's income instead of a VANISHING portion ... 



Machiavellian said:

So what you are saying is that Pam Bondi, knowing that she ihas a suit on Trump University on her desk, came to Trump and asked for a donation when she knows it would be a conflict of interest and suddently she drops the suit.  I mean really, do you think people are that dumb.  Exactly what part of that does not sound like Pay to play.  It doesn't matter who came to who first and it especially does not matter when someone is trying to save their bacon.  The fact that she received money from Trump within the same time frame she is suppose to be investigating Trump University, drop the case and then he also did a free fund raiser at one of his most expensive hotels where he charges 100K for nothing.  The fact that Trump pretty much admitted he does this type of stuff just make you shake your head you are trying to defend it.

Pam Bondi is the one who had her interests changed, not Trump ... 

It's the GOVERNMENT who should try and guard their interests, not the citizens ... 



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Keep shit like this mind also if you are going to vote. This man lives in la la land.
http://thehill.com/regulation/healthcare/296152-trump-says-he-would-eliminate-food-safety-regulations



Such nonsense.

Maybe you do have a point of some kind, but it's nothing new. The RNC would be doing exactly the same thing if they actually liked Trump in any way.

I've read mountains of stuff on Hillary and Donald. As far as I'm concerned, Hillary is the most picked over, exposed, and public politician in the whole of the United States. She's been getting first rate investigations into her background for TWENTY FOUR YEARS... For that time, you have a shaky email investigation that was cleared by a REPUBLICAN. Some sex scandals of her husbands (So what, she stayed with him to help her political career. Just means she's a politician.) and from what I can tell, a MOUNTAIN of exaggerated claims and misleading facts which even the republicans apologize for.

So the sum total of negatives against her are 1) she's a politician... 2) She circumvents security rules for her own convenience.

There's a reason republicans news stations aren't bringing this garbage up. They've made themselves look bad dozens of times now poking into every poorly thought out conspiracy theory and people don't trust them anymore.

All you have to do is look at the liberal comments on this thread. No one other than hardcore republicans are even taking any of this seriously. You've lost all credibility.



SkepticallyMinded said:
Dunban67 said:

Great contribution to the conversation.   THe world needs uninformed followers too i expect  but we already have too many-  That is why we are in this position in the first place.

Similarly to the "Elvis is still alive man" crowd, some ideas simply do not warrant a response other than ridicule and disdain. I do not care if your delicate sensibilities are harmed by my succinct and direct reply.

Exactly. The confirmation bias is strong on this post.

Seriously why do people wanna blind themselves on purpose? 

I can acknowledge some incompetent things Hillary has done.

But people are just so desperate to defend Trump. Really laughable.  



 

        

fatslob-:O said:

Nope, not all of it is circumstantial! There's an email from George Soros that instructed how the Secretary of State at the time (Clinton) was to deal with the unrest in Albania and she followed. Although I wish I knew what exactly was going on in that billionaire's mind ... 

Muhammad Yunus (Clinton Foundation donor) was granted $13 million dollars from the former Secretary of State and then she intervened with the Bangladesh government on behalf of Muhammad during an investigation against him. A massive and blatant example of conflict of interest due to cronyism if you ask me ... 

Depending on your definition of "a lot", his income from licensing his name isn't even in the double digit by the millions!

I'd be more inclined to believe your proposal that LARGE conflict's of interests would arise with him if well y'know these foreign partnerships ACTUALLY made a substantial portion of Trump's income instead of a VANISHING portion ... 

Like...someone said, when you are Secretary of State, everyone wants to get involved. There is no evidence that any decisions were made due to this email. Again, this is the definition of circumstancial. Again, I agree that there are conflicts of interest involved with the Clinton Foundation, but there isn't direct evidence of quid pro quo.

Now, speaking about Trump for a second, I have already posted that Trump receives $8million per year from his South Korean deal. Now, your sources indicate that Soros provided the Clinton Foundation (again, this money goes to charity, not into Clinton's pockets) $7mil during the election cycle, so any way you slice it, Trump is making more money from a single source than Clinton is here. The fact that Clinton recieves more money total really only implies that she has more sources of income for her foundation and that there are more interests involved (meaning that the interests of her donors would be more likely to conflict). 

Also, you are acting like Trump licensing his name isn't central to his business strategy, when that has been his business strategy for years now (and its very worth noting that the federal disclosure form is far from complete due to it not exactly being written for someone like Trump).  Additionally, there are and have been many other deals involving this licensing, so if the South Korean deal is anything to go by, factoring in an increase in Trump's name power as president, it wouldn't be unlikely that future licensing deals which he could directly affect as President would make him over $10million per year each.

I'm not really sure why we are arguing anymore. This has become a pissing contest. Both of them have clear, undeniable conflicts of interest. Theres no two ways about it.

However, worth noting that Hillary has already made it clear that Bill and several other members will step away from the foundation (Hillary has already stepped away), it will go independent, and donations would only be accepted from US citizens if she were to become president. Trump on the other hand has said that his kids would be in charge of his business, which doesn't separate him any where near far enough from the conflict of interest imo.



sundin13 said:

Like...someone said, when you are Secretary of State, everyone wants to get involved. There is no evidence that any decisions were made due to this email. Again, this is the definition of circumstancial. Again, I agree that there are conflicts of interest involved with the Clinton Foundation, but there isn't direct evidence of quid pro quo.

Now, speaking about Trump for a second, I have already posted that Trump receives $8million per year from his South Korean deal. Now, your sources indicate that Soros provided the Clinton Foundation (again, this money goes to charity, not into Clinton's pockets) $7mil during the election cycle, so any way you slice it, Trump is making more money from a single source than Clinton is here. The fact that Clinton recieves more money total really only implies that she has more sources of income for her foundation and that there are more interests involved (meaning that the interests of her donors would be more likely to conflict). 

Also, you are acting like Trump licensing his name isn't central to his business strategy, when that has been his business strategy for years now (and its very worth noting that the federal disclosure form is far from complete due to it not exactly being written for someone like Trump).  Additionally, there are and have been many other deals involving this licensing, so if the South Korean deal is anything to go by, factoring in an increase in Trump's name power as president, it wouldn't be unlikely that future licensing deals which he could directly affect as President would make him over $10million per year each.

I'm not really sure why we are arguing anymore. This has become a pissing contest. Both of them have clear, undeniable conflicts of interest. Theres no two ways about it.

However, worth noting that Hillary has already made it clear that Bill and several other members will step away from the foundation (Hillary has already stepped away), it will go independent, and donations would only be accepted from US citizens if she were to become president. Trump on the other hand has said that his kids would be in charge of his business, which doesn't separate him any where near far enough from the conflict of interest imo.

Well if you've read the article ever since that $43 billion dollar accounting fraud, Daewoo E&C made revisions to the contract. You say he's getting $8 million dollars but his financial disclosure form says otherwise ... 

You're convinced that the Clinton Foundation is a charity but on what grounds do you have to really substantiate that claim ? Furthermore, why exactly does the Clinton Foundation have so many insiders as their top staff when a practice of good governance is that board members are to have term limits ? 

Even if his name does rise to fame, how likely do you think he'll be able to break the low double digit barrier for licensing ?