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Forums - Nintendo - Who will provide the NX GPU?

 

Who is making the NX GPU

nVida 187 41.19%
 
AMD 210 46.26%
 
Silicon Graphics Inc 16 3.52%
 
Sony (the power of the Cell!!!) 41 9.03%
 
Total:454
dongo8 on 24 August 2016
SpokenTruth said:
The funny thing about patents, the end product isn't always what you think.

The other funny thing about them, maybe 1 out of 10 is actually utilized in a real product.

You know, I was just thinking this exact same thing and was about to point it out. What if these patents have us all looking in the completely wrong direction while Nintendo is actually planning something else altogether with sets of patents that just haven't been found yet? I've only seen maybe 4 or 5 patents for this thing and there could be hundreds of others that could contain some unusual stuff, just nobody has uncovered them yet. I thnk it's all just a slight of hand trick haha



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

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JEMC on 24 August 2016

To Soundwave, from his discussion with TheLastStarFighter about the SCD patent and the power source: Soundwave, you're giving the SCD patent and diagram too much credit.

For example, remember the detachable controller that the Eurogamer rumor said, and how you made a thread with the mock-up that someone on GAF made to illustrate the idea? Well, Nintendo's patent on that idea is quite different.

Mock up

Patent diagram

 

Stop using patents as the gospel truth.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Soundwave on 24 August 2016
JEMC said:

To Soundwave, from his discussion with TheLastStarFighter about the SCD patent and the power source: Soundwave, you're giving the SCD patent and diagram too much credit.

For example, remember the detachable controller that the Eurogamer rumor said, and how you made a thread with the mock-up that someone on GAF made to illustrate the idea? Well, Nintendo's patent on that idea is quite different.

Mock up

Patent diagram

 

Stop using patents as the gospel truth.

That's not the patent I was talking about. This one is, discovered several days after Eurogamer's report:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1261569

Detachable controller sides on a tablet like device. Things that make you go "hmmmmm". 



Pemalite on 24 August 2016
Soundwave said:

Not sure if we know how well the Tegra X1 can perform because no one really made many serious efforts for it, the Shield Console only sold a few thousand units so I can't really imagine devs made it a priority. 

Doom 3 BFG Edition on Tegra X1 runs at a full 1080P + 60 fps though, where as the PS3/360 versions run at a variable resolution below 720p even at times and have many frame rate dips. 

We can only go on the information we have. Tegra X1 had Xbox 360 ports and struggled with them. Why? Because there is more to rendering games than just flops and bandwidth.

TheLastStarFighter said:

The Tegra is more powerful than current consoles on the CPU side - it's the GPU and bandwidth for graphics that is lacking.  An older model nVida chip could be customised cheaply to provide NX Home with the power it needs to be respectable.

Yes and no. We need a thing called benchmarks to know for sure.
Even so... Both CPU's are Tablet-levels of performance and power cosumption.

Soundwave said:

This is what the patent says:

 

  • Supplemental computing device(s) configured to detachably couple to a game console in order to provide processing resources for an increase of speed or quality of a user's gaming experience.
    •  
  • The supplemental computing device includes one or more processors, memory and one or more communication interfaces.
  • In some instances, the functionality of the device may be basic in order to keep a cost of the device relatively low. As such, the device may be free from drivers, video cards, user-control interfaces, and the like.
  • Users may share processing resources. Doing so can compensate a user in form of access to other supplemental computing devices maintained by other users, discounts on games, access to certain game content, points for redemption for digital or physical goods, social network badges, any form of value really.

Patents are the legal protections of an invention or "idea". Not some kind of proof of a certain implementation of an invention or idea.
Lots of patents never come to fruition and instead are simply retained for legal fights.


Soundwave said:
A 2:1 ratio with the Tegra X2 (500 GFLOPS to 1 TFLOP) would be probably the ideal sweet spot, once you go above that you're going to have massive problems running the same game on both configurations. 
You can't just have a 400-500 gigaflop portable (in actual usage) and then like a 3 TFLOP SCD configuration, the gap beween the two is ridiculous.


PC has been dealing with gaps like that for decades just fine.


Soundwave said:

Two Tegra X2s isn't so bad really, I still think with a higher speed RAM frame buffer suitable for 1080P that you'd get basically something comparable to what a Playstation 4 can do. At least enough so that you'd be able to see what Mario Kart and Mario 3D would look like on a PS4 type machine. 

And it would be cheap and very low power draw, two Tegras together even at full load run could run at like 30-40 watts, which would be about the same as a Wii U.

You might even have less than 40 watts.
Tegra X1 can usually top out at around 10 watts of power... If you were more aggressive with binning, you might be able to do 5-7.5 watts.
That's not counting additional components like the Screen though.

With that said, even if a couple of Tegra X2's had the bandwidth for 1080P, graphically it will still fall short of the Playstation 4, like all things... There is more to graphics than just resolution. :P




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Soundwave on 25 August 2016
Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

Not sure if we know how well the Tegra X1 can perform because no one really made many serious efforts for it, the Shield Console only sold a few thousand units so I can't really imagine devs made it a priority. 

Doom 3 BFG Edition on Tegra X1 runs at a full 1080P + 60 fps though, where as the PS3/360 versions run at a variable resolution below 720p even at times and have many frame rate dips. 

We can only go on the information we have. Tegra X1 had Xbox 360 ports and struggled with them. Why? Because there is more to rendering games than just flops and bandwidth.

TheLastStarFighter said:

The Tegra is more powerful than current consoles on the CPU side - it's the GPU and bandwidth for graphics that is lacking.  An older model nVida chip could be customised cheaply to provide NX Home with the power it needs to be respectable.

Yes and no. We need a thing called benchmarks to know for sure.
Even so... Both CPU's are Tablet-levels of performance and power cosumption.

Soundwave said:

This is what the patent says:

 

  • Supplemental computing device(s) configured to detachably couple to a game console in order to provide processing resources for an increase of speed or quality of a user's gaming experience.
    •  
  • The supplemental computing device includes one or more processors, memory and one or more communication interfaces.
  • In some instances, the functionality of the device may be basic in order to keep a cost of the device relatively low. As such, the device may be free from drivers, video cards, user-control interfaces, and the like.
  • Users may share processing resources. Doing so can compensate a user in form of access to other supplemental computing devices maintained by other users, discounts on games, access to certain game content, points for redemption for digital or physical goods, social network badges, any form of value really.

Patents are the legal protections of an invention or "idea". Not some kind of proof of a certain implementation of an invention or idea.
Lots of patents never come to fruition and instead are simply retained for legal fights.


Soundwave said:
A 2:1 ratio with the Tegra X2 (500 GFLOPS to 1 TFLOP) would be probably the ideal sweet spot, once you go above that you're going to have massive problems running the same game on both configurations. 
You can't just have a 400-500 gigaflop portable (in actual usage) and then like a 3 TFLOP SCD configuration, the gap beween the two is ridiculous.


PC has been dealing with gaps like that for decades just fine.


Soundwave said:

Two Tegra X2s isn't so bad really, I still think with a higher speed RAM frame buffer suitable for 1080P that you'd get basically something comparable to what a Playstation 4 can do. At least enough so that you'd be able to see what Mario Kart and Mario 3D would look like on a PS4 type machine. 

And it would be cheap and very low power draw, two Tegras together even at full load run could run at like 30-40 watts, which would be about the same as a Wii U.

You might even have less than 40 watts.
Tegra X1 can usually top out at around 10 watts of power... If you were more aggressive with binning, you might be able to do 5-7.5 watts.
That's not counting additional components like the Screen though.

With that said, even if a couple of Tegra X2's had the bandwidth for 1080P, graphically it will still fall short of the Playstation 4, like all things... There is more to graphics than just resolution. :P

This the Shield console running Doom 3 BFG Edition and a few other games, keep in mind the same game on the PS3/360 can't even maintain 720p and has big frame rate dips, it's a rock solid 1080p + 60 fps on the Shield. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7-Ot4zyf0

I think the Pascal based Tegra with the better CPU setup + double the RAM bandwidth will also make considerable differences in performance as will Nintendo coding straight to the metal for the device. 

It doesn't have to really equal the PS4, it just has to get into the same ball park to make a SCD worthwhile I think. 



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Pemalite on 25 August 2016
Soundwave said:
Pemalite said:

We can only go on the information we have. Tegra X1 had Xbox 360 ports and struggled with them. Why? Because there is more to rendering games than just flops and bandwidth.

Yes and no. We need a thing called benchmarks to know for sure.
Even so... Both CPU's are Tablet-levels of performance and power cosumption.

Patents are the legal protections of an invention or "idea". Not some kind of proof of a certain implementation of an invention or idea.
Lots of patents never come to fruition and instead are simply retained for legal fights.



PC has been dealing with gaps like that for decades just fine.


You might even have less than 40 watts.
Tegra X1 can usually top out at around 10 watts of power... If you were more aggressive with binning, you might be able to do 5-7.5 watts.
That's not counting additional components like the Screen though.

With that said, even if a couple of Tegra X2's had the bandwidth for 1080P, graphically it will still fall short of the Playstation 4, like all things... There is more to graphics than just resolution. :P

This the Shield console running Doom 3 BFG Edition and a few other games, keep in mind the same game on the PS3/360 can't even maintain 720p and has big frame rate dips, it's a rock solid 1080p + 60 fps on the Shield. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7-Ot4zyf0

I think the Pascal based Tegra with the better CPU setup + double the RAM bandwidth will also make considerable differences in performance as will Nintendo coding straight to the metal for the device. 

It doesn't have to really equal the PS4, it just has to get into the same ball park to make a SCD worthwhile I think. 

You should take a look at Resident Evil 5 and Metal Gear Solid Rising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwz65Bvxrv8

Keep in mind that Doom 3 BFG is unlikely taking full advantage of the 360, it's using an old game engine with enhancements, it's certainly not in the same league as a ton of other titles on the 360, that's for sure.

And let's be realistic... This is all last generation stuff, not current generation.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Soundwave on 25 August 2016
Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

This the Shield console running Doom 3 BFG Edition and a few other games, keep in mind the same game on the PS3/360 can't even maintain 720p and has big frame rate dips, it's a rock solid 1080p + 60 fps on the Shield. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je7-Ot4zyf0

I think the Pascal based Tegra with the better CPU setup + double the RAM bandwidth will also make considerable differences in performance as will Nintendo coding straight to the metal for the device. 

It doesn't have to really equal the PS4, it just has to get into the same ball park to make a SCD worthwhile I think. 

You should take a look at Resident Evil 5 and Metal Gear Solid Rising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwz65Bvxrv8

Keep in mind that Doom 3 BFG is unlikely taking full advantage of the 360, it's using an old game engine with enhancements, it's certainly not in the same league as a ton of other titles on the 360, that's for sure.

And let's be realistic... This is all last generation stuff, not current generation.

Yeah but those could also be bad ports (RE5 and MGSR) ... there simply isn't much incentive to put a ton of effort into a Nvidia Shield console port, the Vita has a userbase that would make the Shield blush. 

There's nothing on the PS3/360 that runs 60 fps + 1080P like Doom 3 BFG, so the chip is capable if developers are willing to put effort into it I think. 

PS3/360 have done OK with things like Metal Gear Solid V, which honestly to me is still one of the more visually impressive PS4/XB1 games, but it's still able to run OK on the PS3/360. If the Pascal Tegra is a pretty solid leap above the PS3/360, I think you'll see some games approach PS4/XB1 titles, it just depends if the developer wants to put that much effort into a NX project or not. 

Nintendo's approach is really not to match pixel for pixel so the hardcore junkies on the internet can count all the little things, it's more just so "joe average" can look at it on their 40-inch $500 TV and say "hey that looks pretty". 



JEMC on 25 August 2016
Soundwave said:
JEMC said:

To Soundwave, from his discussion with TheLastStarFighter about the SCD patent and the power source: Soundwave, you're giving the SCD patent and diagram too much credit.

For example, remember the detachable controller that the Eurogamer rumor said, and how you made a thread with the mock-up that someone on GAF made to illustrate the idea? Well, Nintendo's patent on that idea is quite different.

Mock up

*pic*

Patent diagram

 

Stop using patents as the gospel truth.

That's not the patent I was talking about. This one is, discovered several days after Eurogamer's report:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1261569

Detachable controller sides on a tablet like device. Things that make you go "hmmmmm". 

Exactly, this one was filled/found after the Eurogamer article and can be seen as a refinement or improvement over the original idea that they also patented. Just because today's patent regarding the SCD shows no extra power supply, it doesn't mean that it won't have it later.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

CosmicSex on 25 August 2016

Michelle Obama



Werix357 on 28 August 2016
Pemalite said:
Werix357 said:

Wish more people read this as people are jumping to conclusions based on GFLOP's

I am constantly nagging people about it.

Maybe it's time for thread on the subject (again if it has been done before)