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Forums - Nintendo - Talking about anti Wii bias...

"wii controls are leagues better than dual analog"

debatable, I simply cannot get used to the fact that you point at the screen to shoot and turn your head when you reach the edge. That is so Rebel Assault. Perhaps years of Unreal training have made it hard for me to change but good dual-analog controls (its weird but Half-Life2 >> Resistance) somehow are more natural. But yes at least good FPS controls on the Wii (Metroid Prime) are quite nice.

Fun, New, Fresh? Yes
Better for the long run? Comes down to taste I think.

"and significantly better than mouse keyboard, "

ROFL. Mouse/Keyboard absolutely kill any console control scheme for FPS or RTS, be it Dual-Analog or the Wiimote. The accuracy of the Mouse is just leagues better. Haveyou ever played a PC FPS?



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Kyros said:
"wii controls are leagues better than dual analog"

debatable, I simply cannot get used to the fact that you point at the screen to shoot and turn your head when you reach the edge. That is so Rebel Assault. Perhaps years of Unreal training have made it hard for me to change but good dual-analog controls (its weird but Half-Life2 >> Resistance) somehow are more natural. But yes at least good FPS controls on the Wii (Metroid Prime) are quite nice.

Fun, New, Fresh? Yes
Better for the long run? Comes down to taste I think.

"and significantly better than mouse keyboard, "

ROFL. Mouse/Keyboard absolutely kill any console control scheme for FPS or RTS, be it Dual-Analog or the Wiimote. The accuracy of the Mouse is just leagues better. Haveyou ever played a PC FPS?

yes I have and your stuck in your old ways, as I've said you need to let go of them and you'll discover that the wiimote is far better, but you won't let go of your old ways and instead you'll just keep saying mouse and keyboard FTW!!!!



I HAVE A DOUBLE DRAGON CAB IN MY KITCHEN!!!!!!

NOW A PUNISHER CAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the current state in my opinion, the Wiimote is better for FPS games than dual analog controllers. While some may be used to the dual analog scheme, I have yet to see a valid argument why it is better (or ever will be better).
Compared to the mouse + keyboard, the Wii is much worse due to the fact that it is not accurate enough and that you have to hold your hand up and it becomes tiring after awhile (1-2 hours). Does it have the potential to be better in the long run? Yes I am pretty sure it does since the analog stick in the nunchuck is way better than the asdw in the keyboard. But is it now? no.
Regarding RTS games, dual analog really are horrible, and the Wiimote is miles better, but completly useless compared to a mouse and keyboard because it is not (cannot?) be precise enough.



"your stuck in your old ways, as I've said you need to let go of them and you'll discover that the wiimote is far better,"

lol perhaps you shouldn't take this so seriously. You probably should use as input device what you are most comfortable with.

But there are two areas where control schemes matter.

1) Quality: Here keyboard/mouse definitely kill the Wiimote. I think nobody debates that a deathmatch mouse vs. Wiimote would result in utter ownage of all motion control users.

2) Fun: Depends, I like keyboard/mouse. Its absolutely accurate, you can do a 180 in splitseconds and I never understood lightgun games in the arcade. I think if you like lightgun games you like the Wiimote.

What I don't like about the Wiimote is that every developer forces himself to add minigames and Wiimote motions to their game (like the key turning in MP) etc. even if they do not add to the game. I don't know who likes them I find these things tedious. Its fun for 10 times but the 11 time you just want to press a button to reload instead of flicking/shaking whatever the controller.

Perhaps I am so indifferent to the controller because I think that it is not so important how you control a game. I like presentation and story. I like it when a game grips you till you finished it. And for multiplayer FPS I want the best controller which is the mouse.




Squilliam said:
I would disagree with the whole Wiimote > thing unless the Wiimote was tweaked a little and could be pointed at the screen and not the stupid sensor bar. It really annoys me, I keep losing the pointer.

 maybe but the screen wouldn't be able to pick up the motions and commands you make. Maybe a better sensor bar would help.



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wiimote rules

On topic - i agree with the stuff about the game but the wii bashing was completely uneeded



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Kyros said:
1) Quality: Here keyboard/mouse definitely kill the Wiimote. I think nobody debates that a deathmatch mouse vs. Wiimote would result in utter ownage of all motion control users.


Well now there is a good reason for that, people who play PC FPS have been using mouse and keyboard extensively and are therefore really good at it, people using a wiimote have little experience with it due to the Wii being new and the lack of well made FPS controls on the system.

I think if the movement controls on the remote/nunchuck were done well people using them would be a decent match for PC users....In the end the mouse would probably prevail due to being more accurate but the difference isn't as huge as you are making out. The main problem with Wii controls is the movement and not the accuracy of aiming, because that is just fine.

I think personally they should scrap having the "boundary box" thing being the only way to turn around.... use the control stick for forward/backward movement (as usual) but also for turning movement, preferably with a fast response so that if you tilt the stick a little bit you turn round slowly, but if you tilt it fully you swing around.

then strafing could be done using the tilt of the nunchuck, I am very impressed at the accuracy of the nunchuck tilt from playing SSX Blur, so for something simple like strafing (which you generally only need 1 speed for, and PC users only get one speed anyway) it would work well.

The boundary box would still be used of course so if you point off screen you look in that direction, but it would only be necessary for looking up and down.

-----

So a control scheme would be:

Aim: Wii pointer
Look: wii pointer using boundary box up/down, (left/right as well but wouldn't be the primary way to turn)

Turn: control stick left/right
Move:control stick up/down

strafe: nunchuck tilt

Fire: B trigger
Action: A button


Other buttons and motion controls can be used for anything else depending on the game (so some games need jump and crouch, some need zoom for snipers, some need secondary fire functions, all these things can be mapped to the c/Z buttons, d-pad, -/+ buttons or motion controls (perhaps flicking the nunchuck up jumps)

Also it would need custom options of course, like in Timesplitters where you can custom fit which action to which button, and some kind of adjust feature can be added for those that want 1:1 aiming (I don't because my TV is too small, but I could use it downstairs on that TV) as well as a sensitivity option for the boundary box turning as well as the control stick turning (so new players don't get flustered and start spining in circles when the tilt the stick)



God you guys are terrible -_-; for ever person that I hear hate the Wii, I hear 12,346,343,433,434 people stand up and back it up. Is it only ok to hate a different system?

The Wii control schemes are NOT the best thing since sliced bread. I'm sorry guys, but it entirely falls into preference. Thats nice that you believe your motion controls are far superior for FPS's, to be honest, I find them less accurate than dual analog :/ And then theres the fact that I can take my "inferior" controller, lay on my couch facing the completely wrong direction, and still enjoy my game with the comfort of laying my 6'1 body the span of my couch. Can't quite do that with the Wii mote. Which one is inferior now?

The motion controls are great with the Wii, and I understand your liking for them, but just like everything else in the world, it buckles down to preference. Different yes, "superior"... well thats entirely too debatable.



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ChronotriggerJM said:

 Is it only ok to hate a different system? 

No.



Sqrl said:

 Why should anyone take those things into account at all? 

If he wants his reviews to be taken seriously he needs to have at least a shred of professionalism and when your reason for disliking a game is because you're "jonesing" to play another game it only tells the reader that no matter how good the game was you were going to hate it because you really wanted to be somewhere else.  The game was essentially never given a fair chance by his own admission.

He destroys his credability further by continually bashing on the console in general which again makes the reader wonder..."Why are you reviewing this game at all then...why do you even own a Wii still if you dislike it so much?".  

I don't care how bad his week was, if his girlfriend left him and took his dog, or even if she did so while he had food poisoning.  The fact is that none of that should factor into his review, and he should be ashamed to say it does...but instead he flaunts it and uses it as an intro for the review.

If you want to defend that then go ahead, but it only makes you look bad as well.  This is the type of article you need an 11ft pole for...because the 10ft pole just isn't long enough. 


100% correct Sqrl, and I'm quoting your post in full to re-emphasize your points. I would be horrified and embarassed if I ever let my personal life interfere with my professional job. And yet this seems to be acceptable in gaming journalism, demonstrating once again the pathetically unprofessional state of this "industry".

 



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End of 2008 totals: Wii 42m, 360 24m, PS3 18.5m (made Jan. 4, 2008)