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Forums - Politics Discussion - Where Police/African American Relations Went Wrong (A Working Explanation?)

jardesonbarbosa said:
So many racist comments here I don't even feel like replying, but it's a problem the Police created and them can solve. Police get away with killing black people very easily, that's the problem. They need to be held accountable for their acts. If they are scared of black people they should find a different job, because their job is to protect everyone, including the ones they kill without even ask.

And saying you have black friends does not make you less racist.

Misguided, perhaps, but I haven't seen anything here that I would label as "racist." Racism requires that someone genuinely believe that at least one race is superior or inferior to others, and there hasn't been anything here that I would qualify as going that far. I'd argue that, if you believe people are misguided in blaming the entirety of this on the African American community, then explain to them why they're wrong. Honestly, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on specific posts. I have my own reasons why I think certain comments are wrong, but the more ideas we have in the mix, the better chance we have at coming to an intelligent conclusion.

spurgeonryan said:
Yes profile. I hope people do not think police want to lose their job and that they are racist.

African Americans have caused all of this. Cops are so afr aid of being shot that everything is out of control. Just look at the Chicago situation, Chiraq!, cabrini green, Almost as much city devastation as Detroit, and all mostly due to poor African Americans. It's a fact in case anyone wants to call me racist. What got them to this point is irrelevant, they make these choices. It's never the poor whites or Hispanics or Indians in the news here. Just the African americans. In the Chicago area we live in terror of them.

I am really sorry to say, but that is the case. I have no ill will toward anyone and have had many good times with all races. In fact, my best friend in the military was black.

Stop blaming cops for everything...Long story short.

Well, let's take this in turn. The person in Minnesota was shot four times despite video evidence showing him clearly never fighting back, resisting arrest, or in any way acting against the police. You can maybe, maybe argue that the police somehow thought that he was going for his weapon (although why he would do so after announcing that he had a concealed carry permit is beyond illogical), but even then, it's still the police officer's fault for jumping to conclusions and not giving proper instruction. And we have a video that shows pretty clearly that all of these things are the case. So at the very least, in this one case, it is the police officer's fault. I'd argue that the video of the Eric Garner killing (the guy who was choked to death in NY) counts for another. In other words, this is not something that you can toss onto a community.

I'd be interested in hearing why you think poor African Americans are responsible for the situations in Chicago, Detroit, and the other areas you mentioned. What if it was the other way around? Perhaps those locations were poor and run down beforehand, and as a result, African Americans eventually congregated there over time due to them being, on average, poorer than white Americans. In other words, I'm wary of making the jump from "there are poor people there" to "these poor people are responsible for what's gone wrong."



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Police approach or reaction to certain situations are jarring, they show lack of skills/will to de-escalate and control certain situations. 

They barely positive ID before shooting. 

Here's another shooting where the victim is claimed to be unarmed:



jardesonbarbosa said:
So many racist comments here I don't even feel like replying, but it's a problem the Police created and them can solve. Police get away with killing black people very easily, that's the problem. They need to be held accountable for their acts. If they are scared of black people they should find a different job, because their job is to protect everyone, including the ones they kill without even ask.

And saying you have black friends does not make you less racist.

I don't think you accomplished anything constructive by the racist accusation.

Obviously you reacted to comments like "African Americans have caused all of this" as racist. You got upset that somebody blames black people for bad things.

But you use exactly the same type of logic:

"it's a problem Police created"
"Police get away with killing black people easily"

Namely that you accuse white people of doing bad things!

So by your own logic you make racist comments too.



Pristine20 said:
Slimebeast said:

Everybody should note that Spurge is a bit upset when he writes that post and that it's a bit of a heat of the moment way to express himself.

That people say "I'm not racist because I have a black friend" is perfectly justified. It sounds banal, stupid and unintelligent, but we have to realize the reason why it is said. It's because the culture in our society is such, that people are so afraid of being accused of being a racist and the majority of people feel unfomfortable by the thought that somebody only suspects you of even a little racism, since racism by far is the most stigmatized concept in the whole world and deemed the biggest sin in Western society. Sensitive topics like race relations are often accompanied by accusations of racism.

So it's a quick way to try to prove you are not this horrible thing called a racist and deflect these accusations and stop the race card from flying in your face.

I did not call him a racist? Surely you understand that not every internet post about what kind of friend a person claims to have is true right? This is not to suggest that the guy in question is a liar but that one has to view internet claims with skepticism especially when invoked to back up a comment. If he said I have black friends on a fire emblem thread, that will be viewed with less skepticism than feeling the need to say so on this type of thread.

No you didn't call him that, and I didn't accuse you of it. But I explained why I think people typically declare that they have friends from so and so race.

And right after I had posted that comment, somebody delivered just that: a racism accusation and indirectly even refered to his post.



Pristine20 said:
spurgeonryan said:
Yes profile. I hope people do not think police want to lose their job and that they are racist.

African Americans have caused all of this. Cops are so afr aid of being shot that everything is out of control. Just look at the Chicago situation, Chiraq!, cabrini green, Almost as much city devastation as Detroit, and all mostly due to poor African Americans. It's a fact in case anyone wants to call me racist. What got them to this point is irrelevant, they make these choices. It's never the poor whites or Hispanics or Indians in the news here. Just the African americans. In the Chicago area we live in terror of them.

I am really sorry to say, but that is the case. I have no ill will toward anyone and have had many good times with all races. In fact, my best friend in the military was black.

Stop blaming cops for everything...Long story short.

When you feel the need to write that to justify your comment, you should probably re-evaluate the comment you wrote in the first place.

Why do you think a black man with no criminal record whatsoever was the one who pulled this off?

Not long after the previous 2 police shootings, some Nashville cop (with 8 years on the force no less) said probably in jest he would have shot the guy in Minnesota 5 times instead of 4.  Do you think that kind of rhetoric from a cop no less helps the situation when folks are trying to come to terms with why a presumed innocent man got shot in front of his 4 year old? Do you think the black people who have been accosted by him would feel justified that they were right to think it was all unfair after hearing that? Things is police pretty much never get any punishment after cases like those 2 shootings. I expect no less from the latest cases. Worst they will get would be slaps on the wrist. Just watch.

Blacks gangsters  in Chicago kill other blacks in the overwhelming majority of cases not cops or white people so what do you think the latter groups are purportedly scared of? Whats funny about comments like yours is folks like you never stop to realize that even the most dangerous black neighborhoods in Detroit or Chicago you can think of have white people who have lived there all their lives. For proof as clear as day, look no further that a famous celebrity called Eminem. There is no such thing as a pure black neighborhood. In many cases, others live there and have done so for years.

What caused all of this is a historic vicious cycle and to deny this is to fail to see the full picture. Historically, blacks got no justice in this country and then taught their kids to expect none who taught their kids to expect none and onwards till today. I hope I do not have to explain why this is the case.

Yeah I have to agree with you on this one! Any time people have to specify that that their best friend was this or family member is that, usually what's to follow is something that's going to completely negate what they just said. Once again if people want to find the root of where this mindset stems from Americans as a whole have to start educating themselves on the history of what's taken place in our country.

Young minorities are exposed at very young ages to the injustice of authority in poverty stricken neighborhoods. Just ask any one of them how many times they've fit the description, or been pulled over for absolutely no reason in a car and asked if you're the owner of the vehicle. Or how about walking down the street and a white woman clutches her purse or looks down and away. 

I myself have gone to places like Best Buy right after work with a pocket full of cash to spend and can't get anyone to help me with my purchases before they've helped everyone else that looked like they might have had more money to spend than me. Stuff like that happens all of the time and most of us minorities just take the high road by walking out and or taking our business elsewhere. Stuff like this is taught by generations and generations of parents to their kids. Racism exists and will continue to as long as the color of your skin means that you will be treated with inequality...



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You know, honestly, the focus on improving the situation for African Americans kind of annoys me.

There are more white people living in poverty in the United States than black people. There are more Latino people living in poverty in the United States than black people. The focus should be on providing more opportunities for people to pull themselves up, regardless of race. When you're on the bottom, you don't give a damn about percentages.

I attended the poorest high school in a poor agricultural county in a poor state. The white/black ratio in my grade was roughly equal. That was before Mexican Americans began flooding the school system en mass. I knew people of each race that were as poor as dirt.

Some of them were terrible human beings. Some of the rich kids whose daddies were "high up" at the local saw mill were terrible people, too. The difference, though, once high school was over, was that those rich kids usually ended up okay because they had more support, more resources available, and they also had higher expectations placed upon them. All of that makes a big impact when you're thinking about what you can do with your life.

Before we get to that point, though, we've got to fix the school system so that it stops focusing on grades and those students who are good at the grading game.



Slimebeast said:
jardesonbarbosa said:
So many racist comments here I don't even feel like replying, but it's a problem the Police created and them can solve. Police get away with killing black people very easily, that's the problem. They need to be held accountable for their acts. If they are scared of black people they should find a different job, because their job is to protect everyone, including the ones they kill without even ask.

And saying you have black friends does not make you less racist.

I don't think you accomplished anything constructive by the racist accusation.

Obviously you reacted to comments like "African Americans have caused all of this" as racist. You got upset that somebody blames black people for bad things.

But you use exactly the same type of logic:

"it's a problem Police created"
"Police get away with killing black people easily"

Namely that you accuse white people of doing bad things!

So by your own logic you make racist comments too.

Do you realize that there are black officers as well in the police force?

And by running into you in the football thread, it doesn't surprise me your stand here. 



Trying to get to the bottom of rascim is a beast all on its own, but the #1 probably that minorities have with cops is we need people policing areas that they actually live in! I remember when I was fairly young 2 of the cops that patrolled the neighborhood lived in the same block, so I knew them on a personal level and so did the other kids my age. You had respect for them because they got to know you buy name and were seen visibly in the local barber shop or restaurants and stores. That's not true with most cops these days, most live nowhere near the neighborhoods they are policing and have no ties to the community at all.



Ck1x said:

Young minorities are exposed at very young ages to the injustice of authority in poverty stricken neighborhoods. Just ask any one of them how many times they've fit the description, or been pulled over for absolutely no reason in a car and asked if you're the owner of the vehicle. Or how about walking down the street and a white woman clutches her purse or looks down and away. 

I myself have gone to places like Best Buy right after work with a pocket full of cash to spend and can't get anyone to help me with my purchases before they've helped everyone else that looked like they might have had more money to spend than me. Stuff like that happens all of the time and most of us minorities just take the high road by walking out and or taking our business elsewhere. Stuff like this is taught by generations and generations of parents to their kids. Racism exists and will continue to as long as the color of your skin means that you will be treated with inequality...

Aww.... that sucks so bad, man.



Goatseye said:
Slimebeast said:

I don't think you accomplished anything constructive by the racist accusation.

Obviously you reacted to comments like "African Americans have caused all of this" as racist. You got upset that somebody blames black people for bad things.

But you use exactly the same type of logic:

"it's a problem Police created"
"Police get away with killing black people easily"

Namely that you accuse white people of doing bad things!

So by your own logic you make racist comments too.

Do you realize that there are black officers as well in the police force?

And by running into you in the football thread, it doesn't surprise me your stand here. 

Please, read all my posts in the thread first.

Seriously, don't be so quick to judge. I'm quite neutral on this issue, or rather I'm very critical of American police while I don't think it's bonafide racism that is the major explanatory factor.

Of course there are tons of black police officers. But he just described them as a white group that is racist towards black people. So don't you come and blame me for that!

And what do you mean "the football thread"? In the news thread about the black people who got innocently shot by policemen, I was the only one who demanded that the police officers would be put to death on the very spot they commited their evil crimes.