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Forums - General - FBI's decision on hillary Clinton is a joke

pokoko said:
Slimebeast said:

I don't get this whole affair.

Were any of the mails containing classified information hacked and leaked?

What would have been the motive for Hilary to leak bits of classified information if that's the main allegation, that she leaked classified information on purpose? Could somebody explain what she would gain from doing that?

Or is the allegation that she was just careless?

No evidence that there was a hack or a leak, though attempts were made.  The FBI's technicians have been incredibly thorough, even to bringing back old, deleted email from decommisioned servers and from the servers of recipients.  It is possible, though, considering different people without proper security status had access to her personal server.  She also sent email through her personal server while in foreign countries, another possible security failure.

The first issue is that she was careless with classified information.  Even if the information was actually public knowledge, she still has to treat it as classified if that's an official designation.  She also was NOT supposed to use a private server for official email.

The second issue is that her story has changed repeatedly.  Either she's been telling lies, she didn't understand what she had done wrong, or (what I think) some measure of both.  Either way, it's not good.

There are other issues, as well, though not as serious and many of them are probably wide-spread with government officials.  For example, she was supposed to save and turn over ALL email related to work when she left office, which she did not.  Colin Powell also improperly used a private email account for government business.

In the end, as far as I know, 110 emails were sent that had some measure of classified materal that was classified at the time.  Might have been sensitive information, might have been trivial, but it was still classified.

All of what she did violated department policy.  If she were still in office, this would be a much bigger deal.

Oh, so it's only that. Thanks for the detailed summary.

I want Trump to win just like the next guy, but this affair is definitely not a big deal. It's totally blown out of proportion. 

It just doesn't upset me at all. I think it all seems like she just didn't know better, not that she has a careless character. Judging from how she handles herself she gives quite the opposite impression. I strongly dislike Hillary's policies but I think she seems very trustable and responsible in the formal, practical role of being a state official or president.



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The worst part is you MUST be pretty dumb to do what she did and she will lead the USA for 4 years most likely, oh boy




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malistix1985 said:
The worst part is you MUST be pretty dumb to do what she did and she will lead the USA for 4 years most likely, oh boy

Then pretty much every state offical is pretty dumb because a lot of them do it on a day to day basis.  Basically they all mention how terrible the gov systems are and use their own servers.  Its a known problem but not an excuse.



Slimebeast said:
pokoko said:

No evidence that there was a hack or a leak, though attempts were made.  The FBI's technicians have been incredibly thorough, even to bringing back old, deleted email from decommisioned servers and from the servers of recipients.  It is possible, though, considering different people without proper security status had access to her personal server.  She also sent email through her personal server while in foreign countries, another possible security failure.

The first issue is that she was careless with classified information.  Even if the information was actually public knowledge, she still has to treat it as classified if that's an official designation.  She also was NOT supposed to use a private server for official email.

The second issue is that her story has changed repeatedly.  Either she's been telling lies, she didn't understand what she had done wrong, or (what I think) some measure of both.  Either way, it's not good.

There are other issues, as well, though not as serious and many of them are probably wide-spread with government officials.  For example, she was supposed to save and turn over ALL email related to work when she left office, which she did not.  Colin Powell also improperly used a private email account for government business.

In the end, as far as I know, 110 emails were sent that had some measure of classified materal that was classified at the time.  Might have been sensitive information, might have been trivial, but it was still classified.

All of what she did violated department policy.  If she were still in office, this would be a much bigger deal.

Oh, so it's only that. Thanks for the detailed summary.

I want Trump to win just like the next guy, but this affair is definitely not a big deal. It's totally blown out of proportion. 

It just doesn't upset me at all. I think it all seems like she just didn't know better, not that she has a careless character. Judging from how she handles herself she gives quite the opposite impression. I strongly dislike Hillary's policies but I think she seems very trustable and responsible in the formal, practical role of being a state official or president.

So if she isn't careless, she is ill intended



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This isn't exactly comparable. As several people have stated before, to indict Clinton, the FBI has to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she knowingly sent and received classified documents on a private server. The mere act of having those documents is not illegal as long as you are unaware of it. If the FBI cannot prove intent, then there is no case to be had.

The FBI also did not say that people who had done similar things would be prosecuted. Comey claimed that lower ranking people would likely have been fired for a mistake like Clinton's, and in doing so, possibly insinuated that Clinton should have been relieved of her duties. With that said, claiming that someone should have been fired does not mean you can press charges against her. The law in this case requires proof of intent, and there's no way for the FBI to show it.

Personally, if I had to bet, I'd wager that Clinton knew full well what she was doing, and I suspect that Comey does as well. The trouble is that that's not enough to build a criminal case from. It's enough to fire someone, perhaps, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

With that said, I'd argue that the report should be enough to keep anyone from voting for Clinton. Then again, we live in a country where her opponent is someone that can very generously be called "careless" with his business operations in the past, so whatever.

Let's just all vote third party.



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JWeinCom said:
hershel_layton said:

 

Hillary talks shit about Edward Snowden exposing government secrets. Only approves it for when she benefits. What a hypocrite. Shows the person she truly is

The reason the FBI didn't press charges is because they couldn't determine that she did so intentionally.  The law is a person has to knowingly expose government information.  Snowden clearly did.  With Hilary it's unlikely.

Even if you don't agree with the decision, that's a stupid comparison.

A better comparison may be Colin Powell.  Another secretary of state who used a private server and did not suffer any consequences.

This needs to just keep getting posted. I'm always blown away by how many people freak out over things that happen all the time.



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Johnw1104 said:

lol her husband was President and got to spend an hour eating lunch with the Attorney General and now she's being chauffered around in Air Force One by Obama... she has a powerful friend or two.

One of the funny things about this is one of the charges Bill Clinton was impeached for was mishandling of Top Secret docutments, but in this case he left a "for you eyes only" file out in the public part of the white house. And another thing he wasn't impeached by the Repulicans, while they brought the charges against him, it was Democratic ran Senate that impeached him. In impeachment hearings the house acts as the proscutor and the senate as the judge who passes the final judgment. At the end they impeached him on most of the charges that were brought against, they decided on not removing him because it would cost a lot of money to put a new president in who whould be replaced that following year.

 

Someone mentioned Nixon. He choose to leave office rater then have the country spend millions of dollars impeaching him.



MTZehvor said:
This isn't exactly comparable. As several people have stated before, to indict Clinton, the FBI has to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she knowingly sent and received classified documents on a private server. The mere act of having those documents is not illegal as long as you are unaware of it. If the FBI cannot prove intent, then there is no case to be had.

The FBI also did not say that people who had done similar things would be prosecuted. Comey claimed that lower ranking people would likely have been fired for a mistake like Clinton's, and in doing so, possibly insinuated that Clinton should have been relieved of her duties. With that said, claiming that someone should have been fired does not mean you can press charges against her. The law in this case requires proof of intent, and there's no way for the FBI to show it.

Personally, if I had to bet, I'd wager that Clinton knew full well what she was doing, and I suspect that Comey does as well. The trouble is that that's not enough to build a criminal case from. It's enough to fire someone, perhaps, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

With that said, I'd argue that the report should be enough to keep anyone from voting for Clinton. Then again, we live in a country where her opponent is someone that can very generously be called "careless" with his business operations in the past, so whatever.

Let's just all vote third party.

Why would this report stop you from voting for Clinton.  If you did not vote for someone because they made stupid mistakes then you would elect no one.  Instead you look at the body of work from each canidate then make a decision.  The problem with this whole email thing is that its something that done probably way to offten within the goverment but only really shined a light when one party or another want to use something to gain an advantage.  I am not a Hillary or Trump supporter but I will make my decision on which one I believe can do the Job and actually do something positive.  This whole email thing is more political smoke screen then anything of real merit.



I dont understand how they don't see intent...

She set up her own email server for her to use. She was secretary of state for goodness sakes. She would've known that much of what she would talk about would at the very least be considered sensitive information if not classified. Things that would come up like the location of agents and names of field agents under her jurisdiction. Beyond that the statute does not require intent it just requires gross negligence which comey pretty much said she did. So he punked out because she is running for president and she is married to a former president and they have powerful connections. At the VERY least what she did should result in stripping her of her security clearance and her ability to ever handle classified information again (which would result in her not being able to be potus). I personally think she should be in jail. As someone that has had to undergo background checks and training on handling classified info what she did goes against everything you are taught.



Machiavellian said:
MTZehvor said:
This isn't exactly comparable. As several people have stated before, to indict Clinton, the FBI has to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she knowingly sent and received classified documents on a private server. The mere act of having those documents is not illegal as long as you are unaware of it. If the FBI cannot prove intent, then there is no case to be had.

The FBI also did not say that people who had done similar things would be prosecuted. Comey claimed that lower ranking people would likely have been fired for a mistake like Clinton's, and in doing so, possibly insinuated that Clinton should have been relieved of her duties. With that said, claiming that someone should have been fired does not mean you can press charges against her. The law in this case requires proof of intent, and there's no way for the FBI to show it.

Personally, if I had to bet, I'd wager that Clinton knew full well what she was doing, and I suspect that Comey does as well. The trouble is that that's not enough to build a criminal case from. It's enough to fire someone, perhaps, but not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

With that said, I'd argue that the report should be enough to keep anyone from voting for Clinton. Then again, we live in a country where her opponent is someone that can very generously be called "careless" with his business operations in the past, so whatever.

Let's just all vote third party.

Why would this report stop you from voting for Clinton.  If you did not vote for someone because they made stupid mistakes then you would elect no one.  Instead you look at the body of work from each canidate then make a decision.  The problem with this whole email thing is that its something that done probably way to offten within the goverment but only really shined a light when one party or another want to use something to gain an advantage.  I am not a Hillary or Trump supporter but I will make my decision on which one I believe can do the Job and actually do something positive.  This whole email thing is more political smoke screen then anything of real merit.

The magnitude of the mistake is the reason why. People shouldn't lose votes simply for any silly mistake, but if you screw up badly enough, then it becomes very reasonable to doubt that person's ability to be responsible with far more at stake. Clinton was irresponsible in following basic security protocals and put US National Security at risk. If she's been shown to be careless with important in the positions she's held (and careless enough to the point where the FBI director basically said she would have been fired if not for her prestige), then there's reason to suspect that she will be careless as president.