Nintendo's free online is good and if they do (blank) it will be great. MS pay service is good and if they do (blank) it will be great.                                     The only reason you're on here is to derail a Sony discussion. According to people that know more than I you're misrepresenting the facts.                And here I am again feeding the troll.

So he shows you why sony servers is necessary even for P2P and you just say you used the term loosely and them go back to say the same thing that was wrong before, for real?

Derail what, Have you even read thewhole post history of this comforsation or are you making a snap judgement on one post.  Exactly what fact am I misrepresenting.  First explain that part before stating I am some troll.  Throwing out the troll line is classic for people who have no understanding of the subject in question.

LOL, did you even click on the link he provided.  You just accepted someone else opinion without even verifying it yourself.  Also if you click the link you would seen even the developer called their MP, Peer to Peer.  There is absolutly nothing in that link that shows that there is any Sony servers that are involved with Uncharted 4 MP.  Even if Sony provided dedicated servers for UC4 it would not have any meaning to PSN as a service.  It would be for one game, out of thousands.  Another point is that PSN does not do anything for 3rd party games from the likes of Activision, EA etc.  First party games may use dedicated servers and Sony has done this before but it has nothing to do with PS+ or the service.

What you are confusing is PS+/ PSN service with what individual games may or may have for MP.  The question still stands, exactly what does PSN do for MP online games where it needs to be put behind a paid service.  What cost is Sony absorbing for MP online play that it justified being behind a paywall.  If you have no answer for this question then the move to put Online Play behind a pay wall was strictly a money grabbing move.  Not sure why people cannot accept this fact, its as if you all forget that Sony is a business and they will do things for money whether or not it benifit the customer.

I guess you have to improve your reading... he says that the link he provided is made by guys that makes the same confusion as you.

He explained quite well that the P2P needs the dedicated server for migration in case a host leaves and manage things. And they calling it P2P doesn't mean it's what you understand as P2P it's most that they don't consider fully dedicated... several users in the past even debunked the usefullness of dedicated servers.

It's not a question of accepting or not, it's a fact that you think others should think like you. 21+M users are ok with paying for the online and not complaining, you think they are wrong and should complain because you feel like it is a money grabber.

I have the 13th post in here. your alt profile didn't show up until nearly 100 posts in. So somebody needs to read the whole forum because I answered your psn value questions before you started posting.

Now you can make 15 more posts saying the same thing "psn has no value" for you , just like because I don't own a pc "pc has no value" for me. 

Or maybe you need to read the link instead of telling me what someone said.  Here is a quote from the link.  Its evident that the developer stated their MP is Peer to Peer not the person writing the article.  Also host migration is not done using dedicated server or even a client/ server setup, host migration is only done in a p 2p environment.  Just because someone says something do you just believe it or do you check your info.  Here is a link you might want to read so that you do not follow someone else opinion on something they are not sure about the technology.  This will also give you more of a clue about p2p MP if you take the time to read everything.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc217053.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

Here is the link from the article he posted.  As you can see the developer says they are using p2p.

Impressed by the multiplayer in Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End? You’ll need to deal with the fact that it doesn’t have dedicated servers. This was confirmed by lead multiplayer designer Robert Cogburn after the reveal at Sony’s Paris Games Week show.

“We’ll still have a host, it’s still peer-to-peer.”

I jumped into a discussion about a service I own , how about you? So maybe you want to have it first before making a comment that way you know what you're talking about.

I own PS+ as well. I have had PS+ since the PS3. I have a PSP, PS Vita, 2 PS3 and a PS4.  Just because I own the service does not mean I turn a blind eye to anything Sony does.  I chose to purchase and keep my PS+ sub because I own so many Sony devices and the service is great for that reason for me.  Just because I own PS+ does not mean every decision Sony makes increase the service worth.  Sony added MP online behind the pay wall because they got very little subs compared to MS during the PS3 era.  They did not add any new features or increase the worth of PS+ by adding MP they just did it because it was a money move and it did exactly what they were after.  My problem is that if Sony continue to make money moves because they have the console market share then we as consumers lose.  Right now its MS that is making all the value moves and Sony sitting on their marketshare looking for more ways to increase their profits without benifiting the consumer.  What I see is that as long as you and Don are so happy with the status quo you pretty much will let this continue for as long as Sony sees profit in it.

There seems to be this perception that if you have any issue with Sony you do not own their product and services.  This is totally incorrect way to think.  I enjoy Sony products and their services but I am not a fanboy.  I am not a fan of any corporation and they continue to get my money not because I have some misguided loyalalty to them but instead they continue to seek my dollars by doing things that I feel deserve my money.  For some reason you and Don believe I am attacking PS+ as a service which I am not, I am attacking adding MP online to PS+ as a money move without any added benefit which could lead to more such moves.