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Forums - General - Where are the feminists?

Take a look at this thread. Someone took an issue in society, and instead of making an OP geared towards discussion about the subject and how we can solve it, the OP was framed in such a way as to complain why feminists supposedly don't care about it. Do you consider feminists supposedly not caring about this problem as a bigger issue than the problem itself?

Pretty ironic if you were to ask me.



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Teeqoz said:
pokoko said:

Bullshit.  That's pretend.  It's like saying Communists are all about treating everyone fairly.  In theory?  Maybe (though early feminist writings make me doubt that).  In practice?  China and North Korea say otherwise.  "Feminist issues" are female only.

No, what is pretend is saying feminists are only about woman>men. Sure, there are some manhaters and feminazis who are self-proclaimed feminists (even though they aren't), but they are both a) in the minority (by far) and b) by definition not feminists. If you want to include them as feminists because they say they are, okay then, but then you have to keep in mind that they are a tiny minority of feminists. Communism is about a classless society with means of production and transport of products owned by everyone. First of all, China isn't even communist, they only pretend to be (funnily enough, like the feminazis pretend to be feminists), all their actions show that China is capitalistic as fuck. The class mentality is stronger in China than nearly any nation out there, and the means of production and transport are privatively owned. They are about as communistic as the US. North Korea is also not a communist state, but I'm to lazy to go into detail here either. Both countries are riddled with corruption, so whatever ideology they have are irrelevant. The authoritarian regimes are what causes the problems, not their ideology.

setsunatenshi said:

your statement fails to address the fact that:

 

1- there are several types of feminism

2- feminism has several ridiculous claims, like that being such a thing as pathriarchy that actively tries to keep women down

3- egalitarianism

4- if you want a society without different classes of people, you are a communist. (does it apply as well or it's just for feminism?)

 

I could go on, but I think this should suffice 

 

1. Okay, if you want to include the radical minority of feminazis together with normal feminists, fine. But then acknowledge that they are in a small minority. Saying "Feminism isn't about equality, it's only about women>men" is about as errouneous as saying "Islam isn't about their religious beliefs, it's only about killing people who oppose them". Sure, there exist Islamist terror organisations, but they are in the vast minority. 

2. "Feminism has several ridiculous claims" - how can feminism "have" anything? Some feminists have several ridiculous claims, but again, they are in the minority.

3. Egalitarianism and feminism stands for much of the same, except egalitarianism is a broader reaching thing, also demanding equality for all economic backgrounds, social classes, etc. It is related to communism and socialism in that regard.

4. Communist want a classless society and state owned (or publicly owned, you don't necessarily need a state there) means of production and transport of goods. If you want those, yes, you are a communist.

We can't ignore the feminazis due to the fact that they're an actual issue nowadays. Do you not see the shit they do to us? Maybe it's because I attend university classes in a liberal state, but they aren't much of a minority anymore.

 

It's similar to Islam's issue. We get it. They don't make up the majority. But you still need to address the issue.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

setsunatenshi said:
Teeqoz said:

Okay fine, I acknowledge that only using the dictionary definition of feminism doesn't cover the whole picture (but talking about feminist theory is overcomplicating the matter. Do you think most feminist have read up on "feminist theory"? Your little excerpt from wikipedia also doesn't state anything about patriarchy being something universally believed in in feminism, just that it's one of the "themes explored" in feminism. It also brings us to what Pokoko said, it's the reality that matters. Just like the communist manifesto seems pretty jolly good in theory, that's not how it has worked in practice, it doesn't matter what is so called "feminist theory" if it doesn't reflect the standpoints of most feminists). But I stand by my original statement that "it's not about equality, it's about women>men" is complete bullshit. 

I also explained to you, egalitarianism is a much broader term than feminism. Egalitarianism is closely related to socialism and communism. Egalitarianism is about equality for everyone regardless of everything, not just gender. I am both a feminist and an egalitarianist though.

that's fine, all I wanted was to show why that basic definition should not be used to tell someone else they are or aren't a feminist. i personally dislike the term and would never call myself feminist exactly because it would not be a correct term to define my beliefs on the topic of equality. I would call myself an egalitarian and a humanist. I don't need a special term to say I believe women and men should have the same opportunities and not be discriminated. The same way it's enough for me to not be racist, I don't need 1 specific term to say I believe in equality of people of different races. Or that tall and short people should be treated fairly. Equality for blue eyed and brown eyes people is important for me... and so on and so on...

i'm not in the position to tell what 'most' feminists believe, or what 'true feminists believe'. for me it's a pointless discussion. if person A tells me they are a feminist i will take them at their word. now if this term is good enough to cover people with such different viewpoints on the same topic, it's pretty much telling me the term is meaningless.

I'm sure the so called 'feminazis' as you put it would look at someone like you and say you're not a true feminist.

my one and only point: the term feminism is useless and people should be able to state their point of view without using it. it's simply muddying the water.

you and me probably would agree on a lot more regarding gender 'politics' than you and the 'extreme' feminists, yet you decide to use the same label they use, I (and many more people that would agree with both of us) don't

I agree with you that the whole label thing is sort of pointless, what you choose to call yourself doesn't matter, what you stand for is what's important. But of course, this goes both ways.

 

The real problem, as demonstrated by this thread, is that it's more important to people to discuss what feminist do and don't do, instead of discussing for instance the actual problem presented in the article. Go figure.



Dyllyo said:
I love how half the guys in this thread don't even seem to care that they're being sexist.

Keep sitting around, complaining about how feminists are all sexist though :P

Not being a feminist doesn't make you sexist though.

 

Any specific examples you found?



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Teeqoz said:
Captain_Yuri said:

I m pretty sure you are confusing feminism with something else... Feminists Only cares about women issues and little all else...

If a female gets denied for a male oriented job for example, feminists will be all over it but if its the other way around, feminists are no where in sight. I would post many other points but the other posts around here covers a lot of them.

What else am I confusing it with?

Not sure but I m sure there is a word for it however, feminism is clearly not it. Guys have equailty issues too but feminists certainly doesn't care for that. Maybe equalism or something but too lazy to find out



                  

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Captain_Yuri said:
Teeqoz said:

What else am I confusing it with?

Not sure but I m sure there is a word for it however, feminism is clearly not it. Guys have equailty issues too but feminists certainly doesn't care for that. Maybe equalism or something but too lazy to find out

I'm a feminist, and I care about issues like this that affect males.



Teeqoz said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Not sure but I m sure there is a word for it however, feminism is clearly not it. Guys have equailty issues too but feminists certainly doesn't care for that. Maybe equalism or something but too lazy to find out

I'm a feminist, and I care about issues like this that affect males.

Pretty sure that makes you an equal rights activist or equalist/humanist or something but not a feminist... There is a reason why the word has "Fem" at the start and according to wiki...

"Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women."



                  

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Captain_Yuri said:
Teeqoz said:

I'm a feminist, and I care about issues like this that affect males.

Pretty sure that makes you an equal rights activist or equalist/humanist or something but not a feminist... There is a reason why the word has "Fem" at the start and according to wiki...

"Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women."

Those are just words terms coined because people think that feminists aren't for equal rights.

 

Here's the (Merriam-Webster) dictionary definition of feminism:

the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes



Teeqoz said:
Take a look at this thread. Someone took an issue in society, and instead of making an OP geared towards discussion about the subject and how we can solve it, the OP was framed in such a way as to complain why feminists supposedly don't care about it. Do you consider feminists supposedly not caring about this problem as a bigger issue than the problem itself?

Pretty ironic if you were to ask me.

It is part of the problem, though.  If you have tons of advocacy groups on one side, with politicians falling over themselves to get PR for helping girls in math and science, but with nothing on the other, it leads to disparity.  Especially when feminist groups are still denying that there is a problem.

To some, this boy crisis is difficult to accept. “Boys will be just fine . . . it’s girls and women we still have to concentrate on,” a feminist colleague said recently during a rather heated “boy gap” discussion.

 http://www.denverpost.com/2010/04/15/our-boys-are-falling-behind-in-education/

I do agree, however, that the OP's priorities are out of wack.  I did try to talk about the problem but it's hard to combat that OP for attention.



Teeqoz said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Pretty sure that makes you an equal rights activist or equalist/humanist or something but not a feminist... There is a reason why the word has "Fem" at the start and according to wiki...

"Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women."

Those are just words terms coined because people think that feminists aren't for equal rights.

 

Here's the (Merriam-Webster) dictionary definition of feminism:

the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

That dictionary also says:

2organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

So... 

I mean, the definition no matter which dictionary you look at has the "women's rights" part in it one way or another... And considering exactly how many "dictionaries" and etc have the "for women" and etc. I doubt they are so called "coined." 



                  

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