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Forums - Sports Discussion - Why does Messi needs to win a major tournament in order to be compared to Pele and Maradona?

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Ka-pi96 said:

But why only international tournaments then? Messi's club competition record beats both Pele/Maradona.

Because the only people who refuse to compare Messi to Maradona are Argentina fans and media that don't give a damn about Messi's acomplishments with his club, and demand him to be as good and successful with Argentina as he is with Barcelona.



                                                                                     

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You need to win all titles, that's just how it is. And when it comes to national admiration, you have to win for the country.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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Neodegenerate said:
Realistic or not, greats are measured by championships. Some say Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time because he has been to six Superbowls and won four of them. However, people argue that Joe Montana is better because he won four without losing any. They discount the fact that Brady took his team to two more because he lost them. Peyton Manning continues to have his story rewritten because a defense won him his second Superbowl, so now the "greatest regular season quarterback" is his tag.

Look at the most recent NBA Finals. People were saying losing and going 2-5 in the Finals, despite being there 7 times, would knock LeBron out of a lot of top 5/top 10 players of all time lists. But, going 3-4 by winning suddenly puts him on the same level as Michael Jordan.

Winning is more important in the general eye than talent when it comes to placing people on their sport's Mt. Rushmore. It is a bit sad, but is what it is.

It's just a bad way to see it. Joe Monatana didn't win the championship by himself, Brady didn't win championships without some well rounded Pats teams.



Mike321 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

But why only international tournaments then? Messi's club competition record beats both Pele/Maradona.

Because the only people who refuse to compare Messi to Maradona are Argentina fans and media that don't give a damn about Messi's acomplishments with his club, and demand him to be as good and successful with Argentina as he is with Barcelona.

And if he had chose to play for Spain instead (meaning he would have had international honours by now) they would probably still refuse to compare him because he wasn't playing for Argentina



Ka-pi96 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
He needs to win a major tournament to beat Christiano Ronaldo at this point
, let alone be compared to Pele or Maradonna. Only player who never won a major tournament and can be compared to those two is Johan Cruijf.

Because Cristiano has won which major international tournament again?

No i'm saying neither can be compared to Pele or Maradonna right now, but to be able to claim that you have to atleast be the best player of your generation. So for that he needs to beat Christiano, and the only way to do that is to win a major tournament.



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Goatseye said:
Neodegenerate said:
Realistic or not, greats are measured by championships. Some say Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time because he has been to six Superbowls and won four of them. However, people argue that Joe Montana is better because he won four without losing any. They discount the fact that Brady took his team to two more because he lost them. Peyton Manning continues to have his story rewritten because a defense won him his second Superbowl, so now the "greatest regular season quarterback" is his tag.

Look at the most recent NBA Finals. People were saying losing and going 2-5 in the Finals, despite being there 7 times, would knock LeBron out of a lot of top 5/top 10 players of all time lists. But, going 3-4 by winning suddenly puts him on the same level as Michael Jordan.

Winning is more important in the general eye than talent when it comes to placing people on their sport's Mt. Rushmore. It is a bit sad, but is what it is.

It's just a bad way to see it. Joe Monatana didn't win the championship by himself, Brady didn't win championships without some well rounded Pats teams.

Plus the obvious catch that for an NFL player the only big title to win is the NFL itself. Real football is more complex.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

AnthonyW86 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Because Cristiano has won which major international tournament again?

No i'm saying neither can be compared to Pele or Maradonna right now, but to be able to claim that you have to atleast be the best player of your generation. So for that he needs to beat Christiano, and the only way to do that is to win a major tournament.

But he's already beating Cristiano. More major tournament wins (not international ones, although maybe soon those too...). More Ballon d'Or wins. Higher goals per game ratio at both club and international level.



RolStoppable said:
Goatseye said:

It's just a bad way to see it. Joe Monatana didn't win the championship by himself, Brady didn't win championships without some well rounded Pats teams.

Plus the obvious catch that for an NFL player the only big title to win is the NFL itself. Real football is more complex.

It comes down to stats in the NFL. Whenever they choose roundpicks in the drafts, they look up their stats to see who has the most potential.

Ironic ain't it?

Xavi has 2 Euro cups, 1 World cup, 4 Champions League and multiple national trophies but no one considers him.



Ka-pi96 said:
Neodegenerate said:
Realistic or not, greats are measured by championships. Some say Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time because he has been to six Superbowls and won four of them. However, people argue that Joe Montana is better because he won four without losing any. They discount the fact that Brady took his team to two more because he lost them. Peyton Manning continues to have his story rewritten because a defense won him his second Superbowl, so now the "greatest regular season quarterback" is his tag.

Look at the most recent NBA Finals. People were saying losing and going 2-5 in the Finals, despite being there 7 times, would knock LeBron out of a lot of top 5/top 10 players of all time lists. But, going 3-4 by winning suddenly puts him on the same level as Michael Jordan.

Winning is more important in the general eye than talent when it comes to placing people on their sport's Mt. Rushmore. It is a bit sad, but is what it is.

But why only international tournaments then? Messi's club competition record beats both Pele/Maradona.

The biggest and baddest prize of them all?  No one is calling a former XFL or USFL player the best American football player of all time.  Either that or stubborn people who refuse to believe anyone can surpass their heroes.  Hell, he can win the current tourney and there will still be people complaining that he has yet to win a World Cup so it doesn't count until he does.

RolStoppable said:
Goatseye said:

It's just a bad way to see it. Joe Monatana didn't win the championship by himself, Brady didn't win championships without some well rounded Pats teams.

Plus the obvious catch that for an NFL player the only big title to win is the NFL itself. Real football is more complex.

I wouldn't say soccerfootball is more complex from a title perspective.  World Cup is your biggest and baddest.  That's the ultimate prize right there.  Harder and more noteworthy?  Absolutely.  More complex?  Not for a commonplace fan looking for someone to win on the grandest stage of them all.



AnthonyW86 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Because Cristiano has won which major international tournament again?

No i'm saying neither can be compared to Pele or Maradonna right now, but to be able to claim that you have to atleast be the best player of your generation. So for that he needs to beat Christiano, and the only way to do that is to win a major tournament.

But he's already beating Cristiano. More major tournament wins (not international ones, although maybe soon those too...). More Ballon d'Or wins. Higher goals per game ratio at both club and international level. Not to mention that he's also younger than Cristiano as well...