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Forums - Sony - Sony confirms existence of PS4 Neo, not at E3

Swordmasterman on 11 June 2016
Madword said:
Swordmasterman said:

How many years did it takes to make games like The Elder Scrolls, GTA, Resident Evil (the main ones), Final Fantasy ?, it takes Several years and isn't like Mobile or PC where you can change the specs and you have a lot of options if something don't work well.

You want people to purchase consoles even before they have launched the games ?.

I'll be buying one, because i know it will mostly play the current games and all games from September. I want a faster console if i can have it... I am pretty sure there will be lots of others who feel the same. But I dont understand what that has to do with your statement on games, if you are making a PS4 game now, you'll have a small upgrade dev process to make it work... omg that sounds terrible. Not anything like the hassles of PS2 to PS3, and PS3 to PS4 dev swap overs. If you have ever worked in a games studio working on a game for a new gen, you'll know this is nothing like that and no problem if you are making a game on the consoles right now.

On a business note, do you feel they should have waited 1 year for MS to release a brand new console in 2017 or wait until 2018. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines saying they shouldnt do it, but unfortunately there are many reasons why they have to.

I'm saying that there is no incentive for the Actual Consumer to purchase a new console when their favorite  games take years to be made and maybe haven't even launched in the time between the Console's launch and the "Upgradaded" version.



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SvennoJ on 11 June 2016
Ruler said:
SvennoJ said:
Kinda unexpected they're planning on selling them both side by side for the rest of the generation. That only raises more questions of why and what for.

Perhaps it's still an answer to the failed slim model. Can't increase profits with a cheap to produce slim, introduce an equally expensive to make improved version to sell at a premium. Make the original one look like a good deal, and reap the profits on the premium model.

Otherwise I've got nothing. Why potentially piss of your existing user base and developers while adding confusion for potential buyers. I doubt the NX or a better XBox is making Sony do this, they never had a problem having the weakest console before and U4 doesn't exactly look bad. Nor PSVR or 4K are a reason. A new hdmi port would be sufficient, heck the existing one can already do video in 4K just not at 60fps.

Guess the title should be, Sony confirms shooting themselves in the foot. Not that it matters, they're walking on air for now anyway.

How they are shooting themselfs in the foot if all they do is keeping up with the times? Mobile, macs and PC they all work like this now with different models

Traditionally now is the time to introduce the slim, drop the price, get the games rolling and make a nice profit on the majority share of the console sales in a generation. Use that to pay off all the R&D and marketing of the launch and start with R&D for the next generation. By shooting themselves in the foot I mean they're effectively resetting the clock. More game delays because of new specs to incorporate, reset on profit margins and reset on the influx of consumers that jump in at the lower price point.

Sure there is a percentage of current hardcore base that will buy an upgraded machine, yet is that percentage big enough to offset all the negatives. It might be the only thing Sony can do atm though. Slimming down the current design failed. Keeping it at the same price will slow sales down, starting to take a loss on each sale is not a good idea either. Making a new design that runs sort of the same is an even harder sale to developers, might as well turn it into a premium version. Easier to port to and an excuse to raise the price and recoup its R&D and marketing.

I wonder how long they'll keep selling the old ps4. They're saying for the rest of the generation for now, yet it would get weird when the NEO becomes cheaper to produce than the original one.



Pavolink on 13 June 2016
ABTR said:
Pavolink said:

I wouldn't go in that route, but this is clearly a mistake. Skipping the biggest gaming media is a mistake. Nintendo is making a mistake not showing NX and Sony is doing the same. No excuses.

um...They are not in the same possition. Sony has a console that is the most succesfull console on history, ps4 neo is no new console is a premium upgrade console

Sony has also the TGS and on December the PSX  that is also a big event for only playsatation like E3. 

PS4 NEO does't need a big gaming media, but who say is not on PSX, TGS or 2017 E3. Is not like Sony need new console immediately to survive like Nintendo right?

Besides he wait the MS to make her first move

Nintendo has there chance to promote the NX this year after a long time was on E3 and is clearly there no other new hardware and holiday season was the perfect time. Now once again he crash  on the wall who say xbox scorpio and ps4 neo.

Excuses. Skipping the biggest media event is a mistake, regardless of the spin.



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Hynad on 13 June 2016
Pavolink said:
ABTR said:

um...They are not in the same possition. Sony has a console that is the most succesfull console on history, ps4 neo is no new console is a premium upgrade console

Sony has also the TGS and on December the PSX  that is also a big event for only playsatation like E3. 

PS4 NEO does't need a big gaming media, but who say is not on PSX, TGS or 2017 E3. Is not like Sony need new console immediately to survive like Nintendo right?

Besides he wait the MS to make her first move

Nintendo has there chance to promote the NX this year after a long time was on E3 and is clearly there no other new hardware and holiday season was the perfect time. Now once again he crash  on the wall who say xbox scorpio and ps4 neo.

Excuses. Skipping the biggest media event is a mistake, regardless of the spin.

Sony revealed the PS4 at their own event. That sure seems like it was a mistake... /s



mutantsushi on 13 June 2016

Funny I happened to call that they would sell both models side by side rather than direct replacement...

If they are planning on doing so for an extended period of time, I do wonder what cost cutting they will do on "non-NEO" model.
Upfront cost of "14nm" FinFET re-design were touted as precluding "shrink", but could a "standard" shrink to non-FinFET/planar 20nm work?
(IMHO, Sony could well have gone with FinFET redesign of PS4 "Slim" had they been content with traditional gen cycle and not intent on NEO launch.)
(Even if that's not justifiable/possible with simultaneous NEO launch diverting sales along with limited design/production capacity from AMD/Fabs.)

SvennoJ said:
Perhaps it's still an answer to the failed slim model. Can't increase profits with a cheap to produce slim, introduce an equally expensive to make improved version to sell at a premium. Make the original one look like a good deal, and reap the profits on the premium model.

WTF?  "Cheap to produce" is exactly more amenable to increased profits...  Capitalism 101.
NVM in what planet is Sony's profits dependant on console HW profits, rather than online and software sales/licencing?
This comment is so vastly removed from reality I don't know what else to say.  Dem sour grapes be getting fermented, I'd say.

SvennoJ said:Traditionally now is the time to introduce the slim, drop the price, get the games rolling and make a nice profit on the majority share of the console sales in a generation. Use that to pay off all the R&D and marketing of the launch and start with R&D for the next generation. By shooting themselves in the foot I mean they're effectively resetting the clock. More game delays because of new specs to incorporate, reset on profit margins and reset on the influx of consumers that jump in at the lower price point.

"Traditionally" a console is subsidized at launch.  Not PS4, so why should it follow this tradition it has already broken with?
Sony doesn't have large R&D budget they need to pay off solely from PS4.0.  Software APIs, OS, are carrying over to NEO.
Shortly after PS4 launch, Sony's games division was practically carrying the whole company, there was no gen-launch mortgage to pay off.
They just don't need to "reset the clock" in any way, game library is compatable, and online is compatable.
What company would want to be slave to such a "clock"/generational straight jacket, where minor hiccups can ruin them, even if this gen went great?
I mean, just realize the benefits they will reap solely on Japanese market, that is slow to take up traditional (incompatable) gens.
Unlike PS3->PS4, all Japanese devs can be expected to immediately get on board with PS4 NEO, maximizing SW ecosystem synergy.



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SvennoJ on 13 June 2016
mutantsushi said:

Funny I happened to call that they would sell both models side by side rather than direct replacement...

If they are planning on doing so for an extended period of time, I do wonder what cost cutting they will do on "non-NEO" model.
Upfront cost of "14nm" FinFET re-design were touted as precluding "shrink", but could a "standard" shrink to non-FinFET/planar 20nm work?
(IMHO, Sony could well have gone with FinFET redesign of PS4 "Slim" had they been content with traditional gen cycle and not intent on NEO launch.)
(Even if that's not justifiable/possible with simultaneous NEO launch diverting sales along with limited design/production capacity from AMD/Fabs.)

SvennoJ said:
Perhaps it's still an answer to the failed slim model. Can't increase profits with a cheap to produce slim, introduce an equally expensive to make improved version to sell at a premium. Make the original one look like a good deal, and reap the profits on the premium model.

WTF?  "Cheap to produce" is exactly more amenable to increased profits...  Capitalism 101.
NVM in what planet is Sony's profits dependant on console HW profits, rather than online and software sales/licencing?
This comment is so vastly removed from reality I don't know what else to say.  Dem sour grapes be getting fermented, I'd say.

SvennoJ said:Traditionally now is the time to introduce the slim, drop the price, get the games rolling and make a nice profit on the majority share of the console sales in a generation. Use that to pay off all the R&D and marketing of the launch and start with R&D for the next generation. By shooting themselves in the foot I mean they're effectively resetting the clock. More game delays because of new specs to incorporate, reset on profit margins and reset on the influx of consumers that jump in at the lower price point.

"Traditionally" a console is subsidized at launch.  Not PS4, so why should it follow this tradition it has already broken with?
Sony doesn't have large R&D budget they need to pay off solely from PS4.0.  Software APIs, OS, are carrying over to NEO.
Shortly after PS4 launch, Sony's games division was practically carrying the whole company, there was no gen-launch mortgage to pay off.
They just don't need to "reset the clock" in any way, game library is compatable, and online is compatable.
What company would want to be slave to such a "clock"/generational straight jacket, where minor hiccups can ruin them, even if this gen went great?
I mean, just realize the benefits they will reap solely on Japanese market, that is slow to take up traditional (incompatable) gens.
Unlike PS3->PS4, all Japanese devs can be expected to immediately get on board with PS4 NEO, maximizing SW ecosystem synergy.

What I meant is, they failed to build a cheaper to produce 20nm planar slim model
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/199101-amd-nvidia-both-skipping-20nm-gpus-as-tsmc-plans-massive-16b-fab-investment-report-says
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/123529-nvidia-deeply-unhappy-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless
Hence the switch to 14nm finfet, which requires a redesign of the hardware.

Sony doesn't rely on hardware profits, yet they're also not in the business of susidizing their hardware after launch, not even at launch this time. Last gen cost them way too much. Meanwhile the price reductions of the current ps4 design is probably already as low as it can go. The XBox One S also starts at 399 again, not exactly how a slim used to enter the market. Hence we get a premium model that can be sold at a higher price to not bleed money on hardware sales.

Btw ofcourse Sony had R&D and marketing costs to recoup from the ps4 launch. The hardware might have broken even at point of sale, yet everything that came before that needed to be paid off.

Anyway we'll see where this goes, what effect it will have on games.