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Forums - Politics - Clinton has clinched nomination-Also, Clinton or Trump?

hershel_layton said:
Jon-Erich said:
Has anyone even considered the possibility of supporting Gary Johnson? Him and Bill Weld won the Libertarian nomination recently. Both men are former governors of New Mexico and Massachusetts respectively and were very popular governors in those states. Both are running on a fiscally conservative/socially liberal platform. Some of their positions involve cutting national defense spending, shrinking the overall size of government, getting out of the Middle East, ending the drug war, and nationally legalizing marijuana. They will be the only third party on the ballot in all 50 states. You can't go wrong supporting these two. If you're a lifelong republican who can't stand Trump, you'll probably agree with at least half of their positions. Likewise, if you're a lifelong Democrat who can't stand Hillary, you'll also agree with at least 50% of what Gary Johnson and Bill Weld believe in.

Of course, you could always support Hillary And Trump. It doesn't matter which one you vote for. You'll be getting the same candidate either way. Both of them are pro-war neocons who are currently receiving foreign policy advice from the same people who have given advice to Obama, W, and Bill Clinton. They both support increased defense spending, the military industrial complex and the prison industrial complex. Both are big fans of crony capitalism. They both plan on paying America's bills by printing more money and devaluing the dollar even more. They both want to censor the internet and both believe that Edward Snowden should be locked up in prison for the rest of his life. One of them is a political criminal while the other one is a corporate criminal.

So even though people always say that you're wasting your vote by voting third party, I think it's actually the other way around. You're wasting your vote by voting for Hillary or Trump because you're voting for the same exact thing we've been getting for nearly two decades.

It's the first time I've ever seen someone mention the fact that we'll essentially get the same thing.

 

However, the thing about Gary Johnson and Bill Weld surprises me. It's a shame third party candidates never gain any attention to attract more people.

I'm not suggesting he's going to win (although one can still dream), but he's getting more attention than probably any third party candidate since Ross Perot. It seems like everyday he's got an interview with MSNBC, CNN, or even Fox News. He's been getting endorsements from some very noticeble people such as Krist Novoselic, the co-founder and former bassist of Nirvana. Also, Gary Johnson's name has been moving up on the Google search lists over the past few months. My hope is that he's ablw to get at least 15% in the national polls so he'd be allowed to be part of the debates in the fall.



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Scisca said:
Zappykins said:

Seriously?  Cruz would be even worse than Trump!

Why? From what point of view? From the point of view of Europe (by Europe I mean - all countries apart from Russia and Germany), he'd be by far the best president.

From any point of view other than an oligarchical billionaire of light skinned male land owners.

For a Human Rights Point of View:

http://bust.com/general/13923-5-reasons-why-ted-cruz-becoming-president-would-be-bad-for-women.html

From an Environmental Point of View:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/ted-cruz-joins-gop-group-demanding-that-justice-dept-stop-probing-big-oils-climate-denial/

From a Political Point of View:

http://personalliberty.com/why-ted-cruz-shouldnt-be-president/

From a Freedom from Religious Point of View:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/morgan-guyton/the-theology-of-governmen_b_4020537.html

 

For Business and the Internet:

http://www.inc.com/jeremy-quittner/ted-cruz-announces-for-presidential-run-2016.html

 

 

So to recap: he is bad for human rights, politics, patriotism, the environment, business, freedom of information and the internet and one of the founding principals of the USA which is Freedom from Religion.

I would seriously check your new sources if they are telling you that Ted Cruz is a reasonable person.  Even Texans want to get rid of him.

 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Dark_Lord_2008 said:
America needs Trump as President. America has leaned too far to the left with all the recent Political Correctness and Socialism. America needs an end to Political Correctness and a return to Capitalism.

Um, the problem isn't socialism, it's oligarchy.  Of which, Trump would only support and increase.

I think you have your words mixed up.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Scisca said:
Jon-Erich said:
Has anyone even considered the possibility of supporting Gary Johnson? Him and Bill Weld won the Libertarian nomination recently. Both men are former governors of New Mexico and Massachusetts respectively and were very popular governors in those states. Both are running on a fiscally conservative/socially liberal platform. Some of their positions involve cutting national defense spending, shrinking the overall size of government, getting out of the Middle East, ending the drug war, and nationally legalizing marijuana. They will be the only third party on the ballot in all 50 states. You can't go wrong supporting these two. If you're a lifelong republican who can't stand Trump, you'll probably agree with at least half of their positions. Likewise, if you're a lifelong Democrat who can't stand Hillary, you'll also agree with at least 50% of what Gary Johnson and Bill Weld believe in.

Of course, you could always support Hillary And Trump. It doesn't matter which one you vote for. You'll be getting the same candidate either way. Both of them are pro-war neocons who are currently receiving foreign policy advice from the same people who have given advice to Obama, W, and Bill Clinton. They both support increased defense spending, the military industrial complex and the prison industrial complex. Both are big fans of crony capitalism. They both plan on paying America's bills by printing more money and devaluing the dollar even more. They both want to censor the internet and both believe that Edward Snowden should be locked up in prison for the rest of his life. One of them is a political criminal while the other one is a corporate criminal.

So even though people always say that you're wasting your vote by voting third party, I think it's actually the other way around. You're wasting your vote by voting for Hillary or Trump because you're voting for the same exact thing we've been getting for nearly two decades.

Wow. And here I was thinking Clinton was bad. From what you've said about these Weld and Johnson, they shouldn't get anywhere near the White House. Doing what you've described here would be a tragedy.

Wait, what? 

All those things are imporant and should be done: " ...fiscally conservative/socially liberal platform. Some of their positions involve cutting national defense spending, shrinking the overall size of government, getting out of the Middle East, ending the drug war, and nationally legalizing marijuana."

Those are mostly rather tame.  What in there would anyone disagree with?



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Zappykins said:
Scisca said:

Wow. And here I was thinking Clinton was bad. From what you've said about these Weld and Johnson, they shouldn't get anywhere near the White House. Doing what you've described here would be a tragedy.

Wait, what? 

All those things are imporant and should be done: " ...fiscally conservative/socially liberal platform. Some of their positions involve cutting national defense spending, shrinking the overall size of government, getting out of the Middle East, ending the drug war, and nationally legalizing marijuana."

Those are mostly rather tame.  What in there would anyone disagree with?

+1

Gary Johnson is the best candidate by far and it's about time libertarians get some attention. 



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Zappykins said:
Scisca said:

Why? From what point of view? From the point of view of Europe (by Europe I mean - all countries apart from Russia and Germany), he'd be by far the best president.

From any point of view other than an oligarchical billionaire of light skinned male land owners.

For a Human Rights Point of View:

http://bust.com/general/13923-5-reasons-why-ted-cruz-becoming-president-would-be-bad-for-women.html

From an Environmental Point of View:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/ted-cruz-joins-gop-group-demanding-that-justice-dept-stop-probing-big-oils-climate-denial/

From a Political Point of View:

http://personalliberty.com/why-ted-cruz-shouldnt-be-president/

From a Freedom from Religious Point of View:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/morgan-guyton/the-theology-of-governmen_b_4020537.html

 

For Business and the Internet:

http://www.inc.com/jeremy-quittner/ted-cruz-announces-for-presidential-run-2016.html

 

 

So to recap: he is bad for human rights, politics, patriotism, the environment, business, freedom of information and the internet and one of the founding principals of the USA which is Freedom from Religion.

I would seriously check your new sources if they are telling you that Ted Cruz is a reasonable person.  Even Texans want to get rid of him.

 

I haven't read everything, but stuff I've read really doen't matter to me. But bear in mind - I'm European and I judge your candidates on what plans they have for Europe. And from what I've hear from Clinton, Trump and Cruz, only Cruz seems to understand what Europe needs right now to avoid tragedy.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Zappykins said:
Scisca said:

Wow. And here I was thinking Clinton was bad. From what you've said about these Weld and Johnson, they shouldn't get anywhere near the White House. Doing what you've described here would be a tragedy.

Wait, what? 

All those things are imporant and should be done: " ...fiscally conservative/socially liberal platform. Some of their positions involve cutting national defense spending, shrinking the overall size of government, getting out of the Middle East, ending the drug war, and nationally legalizing marijuana."

Those are mostly rather tame.  What in there would anyone disagree with?

Cutting national defence spending. That's a red flag from me and should be for every American. Your wealth and position is secured and largely based on the strenght of your army.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Dark_Lord_2008 said:
America needs Trump as President. America has leaned too far to the left with all the recent Political Correctness and Socialism. America needs an end to Political Correctness and a return to Capitalism.

That's the funniest thing I've heard in my life.

Let me give you a sense of where America is on the political spectrum:

 

|1 ----------2-----3-------------4-------5-------------6-----7----------------------------------8--------9---------------10|

1. Anarchy
2. Communism
3. Socialism
4. Scandinavia
5. 
Rest of Europe
6. 
Centre
7. 
Australia
8. 
USA under Obama
9. USA under Bush
10. 
Fascism

America is WAY to the right. Nowhere near even the semblance of socialism. Your "socialist" healthcare system is nothing more than mandating that people buy private health insurance if they can afford to. Your "socialist" higher education system is dominated massively by private universities, and citizens who wish to study at them have to be born into wealth or be lucky enough to either get a scholarship or have a family willing to go into massive debt.

Your "socialist" regulations of your banking system are so lax that you have private banks that send the entire world into recession or depression. Your "socialist" economic system is so underdeveloped in terms of government services that there are horror stories about the lines at your DMV. Your "socialist" gun laws make a mockery of the concept of protection of the populace. And your government does its best to destroy unions that are nothing more than collections of people within similar jobs hoping for bargaining power, because it challenges private corporate power.

If you honestly think that America is "too socialist", or even "slightly socialist", then you need to recalibrate your sense of the political spectrum. Hillary Clinton, for instance, is more right-wing than Australia's right-wing current Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and is comparable to our previous far-right-wing Prime Minister, Tony Abbott. Bernie Sanders would be considered a right-wing member of our major left-wing party (the Labor Party). Basically, he would be in the centre of Australian politics... which is still to the right of the true "centre" of the spectrum.

As for so-called "Political Correctness", that's one of those terms that gets invoked by people who have no solid argument on the issue. A real argument that could be put forward is that, when you construct rules around what can be said, you usually end up hiding the problem rather than fixing it. But those who invoke the "PC" argument aren't doing that - they're arguing that they should be allowed to say whatever they want. And mostly, you have that right (there are certain, very specific, restrictions on speech - such as no shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre and causing a stampede that could kill people). What you don't have is the privilege of being able to say it without people calling you out for it. It's not about political correctness, it's about not being a dick, and being called out for being a dick if you choose to be one.

Oh, and "return to Capitalism"? Really? Even when Americans choose to be "socialist", they do it in a capitalist way. Instead of introducing a single-payer healthcare system, which isn't even socialist (to be socialist, the government would have to own the means of production, not just centralise the payment system for healthcare), your Democratic party introduces a system that primarily benefits the Health Insurance Industry (did you ever wonder why all those private companies actually argued in favour of Obamacare?). America is beyond mere Capitalism. You could call it Ultra-capitalism. A "return to Capitalism" would mean moving to the left for America.



Both are someone I don't really like to see at position of any kind of power. But my prediction is that Trump will bulldoze Hilary who is seems to be moving toward far right again for the general.



fatslob-:O said:

Trump by far is still the better human being ...

How any former Sander's supporters can still vouch for Clinton is beyond me when Gary Johnson of the libertarian party is arguably more progressive than she'll ever be. It's insanity how some of us we'll even consider a potential federal criminal like her to be POTUS when it's probably all for the #NeverTrump movement that will derail soon enough all just for the sake of having the smug belief that their all on a higher standard than those who believe in Trump is a LOL worthy cause since they'll be backing the person known for the Emailgate scandal soon enough ...

At least with Trump his intentions are pure enough and that he has some balls to run against the government establishment compared to Clinton. I would back Trump since I strongly share the #Anti-PC belief and his #fuckyourfeelings attitude. He's just okay on the policies but I vastly prefer his style compared to most people running for president ...

If he can win I'm very much looking forward to the saltiness of the #NeverTrump camp and his prospective ability to cause meltdowns in the government ...

It is the bolded that allowed Trump to clinch the nomination, in my opinion, and for good reason. Anti-Trump protestors have been shooting themselves in the foot, resorting to intimidation, feels-over-reals tactics which have led to the Trigglypuff meme and a huge backlash against Depaul University's inaction during Milo Yiannopulous's visit. And while Trump has said some pretty dumb things, he's not afraid to speak out. To be frank, I'd rather have someone who's not afraid to sound stupid over someone who's pretending to be smart.