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Forums - Sony - PS4 Neo GPU Is Point-For-Point A Match For RX 480

Soundwave said:
DonFerrari said:

We may very soon discover if the new xbox will have enough traction... there is no guarantee that they will get all games from EA, if their new console plummet they may lose support, but if it sells good enough and/or it's easy to port from PS counterpart or PC them they will get games. And you gone from MS not allowing themselves to lose because they have a lot of money to a very specific point of not being without 3rd party support.

 

What hard lesson have they learned? They seem to be doing just the same they always done as a company. And their internal studios are even weaker than they were on X360, 

Having better hardware for one once again will help MS, MS has been doing a lot of good things actually since Spencer has become the head honcho, I'd expect that to continue. Neo is a nice upgrade, but Scorpio is gonna be a real beast. 

For me personally I don't really give much a crap about either of their 1st party games. I like Uncharted and Halo is OK I guess, but the rest .... meh. I buy Sony or MS for third party content because they make 95%+ of the worthwhile games on the platform for me. 

Actually my favorite first party game from either one this gen is Killer Instinct (tons of fun). Sunset Overdrive was neat too. 

If you want the 95% of the content that is 3rd party you would better expend your money on PC.

And I haven't trully see their improvements with Spencer, they were just reacting to backlash, no real improvement. They still do the same spining and other bad practices they had before... Spencer were already part of the team and the previous head wasn't the whole of MS nor was an outlier, it was what MS truly is, they may only be disguising their intents.



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Why are we discussing Scorpio as much or moreso than Neo? I'm sure everyone who tries to turn this into a Scorpio thread or even a Scorpio vs Neo thread is fully aware that it is off topic, and that hopping into A Neo thread to talk about how much better the practically-hypothetical Scorpio will be than the nearly-not-hypothetical Neo will be is not discussing, it's trolling. So maybe we could get back on topic to where the thread was originally, and anyone wanting to discuss a hypothetical versus match can make a new thread? 



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NEO is day one for me; I hope it will be launched together with GOW4 !



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DonFerrari said:

We may very soon discover if the new xbox will have enough traction... there is no guarantee that they will get all games from EA, if their new console plummet they may lose support, but if it sells good enough and/or it's easy to port from PS counterpart or PC them they will get games. And you gone from MS not allowing themselves to lose because they have a lot of money to a very specific point of not being without 3rd party support.

What hard lesson have they learned? They seem to be doing just the same they always done as a company. And their internal studios are even weaker than they were on X360, 

AAA 3rd party support, the Scorpio won't have trouble getting. However, the Scorpio is not going to solve Microsoft's struggles with indies and Japanese 3rd party games, especially the latter. Quadrupling the amount of terraflops isn't going to convince Japanese developers to make games for the Scorpio, especially when most of their games aren't that graphic intensive. Psycho Pass: Mandatory Happiness, for example, was a timed exclusive in Japan and yet it's being localized for only the PS4, PSV, and PC. Kingdom Hearts 2.8 is exclusive to the PS4 despite KHIII coming out on both the PS4 and XB1. The additional terraflops are also not going to erase Microsoft's very high mininum print order requirement which allegedly led to the cancellation of the physical XB1 version of Shovel Knight.

So while the huge power increase is pretty awesome, it doesn't solve the XB1's biggest problems. The console's struggles were more attributed to software than hardware.



JRPGfan said:
DonFerrari said:
If it means 4K30fps I'll be very delighted to buy it, even more if games like UC4 run on this specs =]

It wont do native 4k (except for watching videos).

It ll either be 1080 60fps or if games already run that, 1440 60fps, and then upscaled.

Maybe slightly more extras, AA & AF...better quality effects/shadows that sort of thing.

 

To do native 4k, you would need a much stronger gpu (even than the rumored scorpio).

Yeah I'd much prefer 1440p upscaled or just native and 60FPS than 4k and 30FPS.  

 

Plus pretty much any open world game should be able to pull off 1080p 60FPS at a minimum. 



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Kerotan said:
JRPGfan said:

It wont do native 4k (except for watching videos).

It ll either be 1080 60fps or if games already run that, 1440 60fps, and then upscaled.

Maybe slightly more extras, AA & AF...better quality effects/shadows that sort of thing.

 

To do native 4k, you would need a much stronger gpu (even than the rumored scorpio).

Yeah I'd much prefer 1440p upscaled or just native and 60FPS than 4k and 30FPS.  

 

Plus pretty much any open world game should be able to pull off 1080p 60FPS at a minimum. 

Don't forget to factor in hardware optimization. It accounts for a lot of increased performance and is essentially why the PS3 was capable of feats like Last of Us. 



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GribbleGrunger said:
aLkaLiNE said:

Not something that I've read, but that's very interesting if true. Could also mean a more complex partnership than people are taking at face value. I sorely wish I stayed invested in AMD when it was $1.82 a share.... Only a few months ago.

I definitely saw a few articles about it but I'm struggling to find one because I'm not technically minded and can't remember what any of the key words were. I'm still looking. I think it was something about how the compute units work but my search is only bringing up recent news of these new consoles. This is what the articles were saying AMD would adopt:

The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands — the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that’s in the system.

I'm convinced that Google crippled their search algorithm in a meaningful way. There are certain quotes, articles and discussions that I've had trouble finding within the past few months as well.



aLkaLiNE said:

I'm convinced that Google crippled their search algorithm in a meaningful way. There are certain quotes, articles and discussions that I've had trouble finding within the past few months as well.

WOW, I'm glad someone else noticed. I'e been complaining about this to my son for a couple of years now. I used to be able to find things quickly but now it just fills my search with newer stuff even if it only vaguely resembles what I'm actually looking for. I got an answer on GAF by the way adn it turns out I'm right:

Yes, later GCN revisions (1.2 onwards I think) used the 8 x 8 = 64 compute sources. PS4 was early to that, kind of like Xenos sat between gens.
Makes me wonder, the PS4.5 may look very 480ish, but what Cernyizations are in there?

ME:

Thanks. I'm really not technically minded at all so I didn't have a clue what to search for. Wouldn't the question be: if indeed AMD made those changes internally, would they be available only to chipsets made for Sony or would they be more widely available? Could Sony have patented those changes?

These fall under AMDs new semicustom strategy - Sony may have highlighted the need, but AMD is still doing the bulk of the engineering. Sony has engineers of their own no doubt, but I think anything would be cross-licenced at most (think Toshiba using Cell for whatever, or Xenos being first to unified shaders but ever new GPU after it using them).

Sony gets hardware ahead of current roadmaps out of it, AMD gets part of their R&D funded.

Another answer:

Cerny wanted more engines capable of distributing graphics vs non-graphics work. The idea is essentially getting better utilization and getting closer to the peak performance of the APU. It was no coincidence that the CPU was quite weak so the GPU could also help out with the compute related tasks.

It will also come in play for VR, which is why I've been saying that they will be doubled in Neo/Scorpio.



 

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GribbleGrunger said:
aLkaLiNE said:

I'm convinced that Google crippled their search algorithm in a meaningful way. There are certain quotes, articles and discussions that I've had trouble finding within the past few months as well.

WOW, I'm glad someone else noticed. I'e been complaining about this to my son for a couple of years now. I used to be able to find things quickly but now it just fills my search with newer stuff even if it only vaguely resembles what I'm actually looking for. I got an answer on GAF by the way adn it turns out I'm right:

Yes, later GCN revisions (1.2 onwards I think) used the 8 x 8 = 64 compute sources. PS4 was early to that, kind of like Xenos sat between gens.
Makes me wonder, the PS4.5 may look very 480ish, but what Cernyizations are in there?

ME:

Thanks. I'm really not technically minded at all so I didn't have a clue what to search for. Wouldn't the question be: if indeed AMD made those changes internally, would they be available only to chipsets made for Sony or would they be more widely available? Could Sony have patented those changes?

These fall under AMDs new semicustom strategy - Sony may have highlighted the need, but AMD is still doing the bulk of the engineering. Sony has engineers of their own no doubt, but I think anything would be cross-licenced at most (think Toshiba using Cell for whatever, or Xenos being first to unified shaders but ever new GPU after it using them).

Sony gets hardware ahead of current roadmaps out of it, AMD gets part of their R&D funded.

Another answer:

Cerny wanted more engines capable of distributing graphics vs non-graphics work. The idea is essentially getting better utilization and getting closer to the peak performance of the APU. It was no coincidence that the CPU was quite weak so the GPU could also help out with the compute related tasks.

It will also come in play for VR, which is why I've been saying that they will be doubled in Neo/Scorpio.

Trust me, as someone who loves having citations to back up their statements, oh yeah. I've noticed lol.

 

This also seems to confirm my thoughts regarding the weak CPU relative to GPGPU compute. Not so secret sauce confirmed 



Captain_Yuri said:
Ruler said:

But having less Mhz isnt that much of a difference, stream processors are. There are various Graphicscards from different companies of the same AMD GPU with higher clock speeds than orginally intended by AMD, yet the difference is quite small in performance.

Also Sony could easily decide to increase the clockspeed in the last minute, just like they increased the GDDR5 ram from 4 to 8 Gigs for the original PS4.

It does matter if we are trying to calculate Flops...

The way you calculate it is... Number of CoresAverage frequencyOperations per cycle

 

2306*0.911*2 = 4.2 Tflops. (Ps4 Neo Rumoured clock speed which in terms of other specs, has been right so far)

2306*1.2*2 = 5.5 Tflops. (480's clock speed)

Of course, Flops doesn't directly translate to real world performance but if we are trying to use it as a relative unit of measurement, mhz does matter... And sure they could increase the clock speed but it is a lot harder to do due to heating issues than just to add in more ram... Specially if they are aiming for a slim model (Not saying it is going to be slim but if it is...)

i doubt they would aim for a slim model, the PS4 is allready slim enough. They will market it for 4K, like having a 4K Blue Ray player. The RX 480 doesnt look like it will do much heat, its a very small card in comparison to a GTX 1080. There is plenty of opertunity for Sony to change the final design. Epsacially with these scorpio rumors