By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Is Miyamoto losing his touch?

CaptainExplosion said:
Fei-Hung said:

Possibly. One could argue that he could have left and gone solo or put his foot down, but that's easier said than done. The main point is that Miyamoto is only as good as Nintendo is. If Nintendo does poorly, it will affect his output as the problems will trickle down and this is precisely what we have seen this gen. 

But what can we, as gamers, do to put enough pressure on them to change for the better?

Stop buying crappy products. If you buy a game you felt was not worth its asking price, sell it used and get some of your money back.

The overwhelming negative reception of games like Federation Farce also send a good message.



Around the Network
CaptainExplosion said:
KLAMarine said:

Stop buying crappy products. If you buy a game you felt was not worth its asking price, sell it used and get some of your money back.

The overwhelming negative reception of games like Federation Farce also send a good message.

But by not buying Federation Farce, what if it leads to the Metroid franchise being canned for good?

If Nintendo was surprised by FF's negative reception, I'm pretty sure they're going to want to know why it got such a negative reception. Be sure to send them an email letting them know why and get in touch with other MP fans and have them join in efforts to emphasize what you want to see out of the MP franchise.

Also, if a remastered MP trilogy is made, be sure to purchase it if you feel it a good investment.



All good things come to an end, we cannot expect Miyamoto to be perfect forever, things change, people gets old, that's life.

However is not completely fair to say he lost it just because he made 2 dissapointing games (even if I do question that SF0 was THAT dissapointing, because I think it was pretty decent)

He also made Pikmin 3 and that was a pretty awesome game, I think he may still got it but just not in the same level as before.



Hiku said:
KLAMarine said:

Where did you get this from?

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/

Ah, thank you very much. The reason I asked is because I had some immediate questions upon seeing your image.

As it turns out, the speaker was Satoru Iwata speaking I assume on behalf of himself and "corporate management" and this then makes me ask whose decision it was to pursue "software titles that take full advantage of the Wii U gamepad" and it sounds like this was upper management's decision. It also sounds like it was upper management that assigned this task to Miyamoto. At this point I must then question the relationship between corporate management and Miyamoto and how it affects Miyamoto's output. Was Miyamoto the sole decision-maker in Star Fox 0's control scheme or did his decisions have to go through corporate management for clearance?

This is why, as I stated in a previous post, I find it infinitely preferable to discuss the value of an individual video game than attempt to evaluate the contribution of one individual in a team of many people who work behind closed doors.

 

By the way, please be polite and provide a link next time.



I don't think so. Hes not perfect, but then again who is?



Around the Network

Maybe you are just maturing and the things that used to appeal to you no longer do. Such is life.



He never lost his touch. He isn't losing now.

I don't know why people and Miyamoto himself think Miyamoto is good at designing and directing every kind of game. He has his own forte. He should focus on what he does best.



Hiku said:

As for the quote, Iwata was the speaker, as he often was in these situations. I don't think it matters who says it, but the question is if this was Miyamoto's initiative, or someone above it. I'm going to assume that he either pushed for the idea, or did not disagree with it. For a couple of reasons.

He has been cited as one of the people within Nintendo who pushed for the Gamepad to be part of the WiiU from the beginning. If thats the case, then it's not surprising that he would be one of the people who would be more heavily invested in showing the audience the potential he saw in it.

One of the people. I don't think it wise we just disregard the potential input from the other people, whoever they may be.

( by the way, for the record I really like the gamepad: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7920949 )

Hiku said:

Generally speaking, Miyamoto has a lot of trust and influence in Nintendo. If he wants something (within reason) he will most likely get the support of the company. Likewise, I don't see them going through with the idea of creating Gamepad based games or assigning Miyamoto to them if he disagreed with the idea. If he thinks it's a bad idea, they will probably listen to him. Take a look at how Nintendo tend to evaluate if a game idea is good or not, for example:
"Miyamoto, and Nintendo as a whole, do not use focus groups. Instead, Miyamoto figures out if a game is fun for himself. He says that if he enjoys it, others will too."
(That's from his Wiki page.)

And if we follow the source from the wiki page, we come to a New Yorker article ( http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/12/20/master-of-play ) that is not only over five years old, the claim that Nintendo does not use focus groups seems to originate from the New Yorker themselves, not from the interview. Even more strange is the same NY article quotes Miyamoto as saying "Sometimes the test players complain that there are too many enemies in one stage" which implies it isn't just Miyamoto who provides feedback.

From a more recent interview in April of this year ( http://stack.net.au/games/features/star-man-shigeru-miyamoto-interview? ), Shigeru Miyamoto is quoted as saying "while we always have test audiences, I ask them how they feel, but I don’t ask what they want it to be." From this, it seems development receives some degree of outside feedback contrary to what the wiki page implies.

Hiku said:

In either case, whether the idea to make Gamepad focused games originated from him or someone else, it's safe to assume that he thought it was a good idea and that it was his idea to make a Starfox game based on it, according to this quote:

"SM: We spent more than one year on numerous experiments using the Wii U GamePad, and in the initial experiments, we conducted tests with 3D graphics on screen using Pikmin and Star Fox systems as a trial.

While manipulating the RC aeroplane-like flying experience or creating the mechanism to appreciate the overall and partial views together, it made me think I should continue to create Star Fox utilising these elements. We fixed the basic form in six months, and then commenced the one and a half year development process."
http://gonintendo.com/stories/255628-miyamoto-elaborates-on-platinum-s-involvement-in-starfox-zero-ta?page=1

Who is the 'we' in the quotes ("We spent more than one year... we conducted tests... we fixed the basic form...") and how did their input influence the final outcome?



Hiku said:
KLAMarine said:

And if we follow the source from the wiki page, we come to a New Yorker article ( http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/12/20/master-of-play ) that is not only over five years old, the claim that Nintendo does not use focus groups seems to originate from the New Yorker themselves, not from the interview. Even more strange is the same NY article quotes Miyamoto as saying "Sometimes the test players complain that there are too many enemies in one stage" which implies it isn't just Miyamoto who provides feedback.

From a more recent interview in April of this year ( http://stack.net.au/games/features/star-man-shigeru-miyamoto-interview? ), Shigeru Miyamoto is quoted as saying "while we always have test audiences, I ask them how they feel, but I don’t ask what they want it to be." From this, it seems development receives some degree of outside feedback contrary to what the wiki page implies.

Yeah, the test players he may be refering to in the same article could be his friends and family, that his Wiki article mentioned. "He then tests it with friends and family."
Though I assumed that this is probably an old practice, and perhaps only regarding Miyamoto's own games. Would be surprised if their focus group don't extend beyond Miyamoto's friends and family these days.
But this was just to illustrate Miyamoto's influence in the company. Im sure they trust him a lot because of his history with the company, and value his opinion greatly. At least until he gives them a reason to doubt him.
A similar example can be Katsuhiro Harada of Namco Bandai. Mostly known as the producer of Tekken. But he's been involved as a director and voice actor as well. He has steered them unto a good path over the years. And he has quite the influence over Namco Bandai's decisions as well when it comes to games. A couple of years back, Namco Bandai did not seem to want to localize Project X Zone for 3DS. After fans asked Harada about it on Twitter, he eventually posted this: "I proposed localization of Project X Zone." He added that the company has "not decided yet, but It will be realized if I continue proposing." Of course he will propose it with a proper business plan, but none the less, it's pretty clear that he believes he has some influence on the matter. And I've heard from others in the industry that he does. (Zhi and Markman who worked at Mad Catz said so.)
It was basically the same thing regarding Xenosaga HD which fans reached out to him about. Almost a year ago, his initial proposal fell through, but he said he had other ideas, and when someone tweeted that "Even Harada can't make it happen", Harada replied with something to the extent of "I can." Whether he makes it happen or not remains to be seen. But I digress. I can only imagine that Miyamoto has the same, if not more, influence over Nintendo regarding games. And if they come with an idea to him, and he thinks it's not good, I'm sure they would take his opinion into consideration and value it highly. Would be strange to see him work on a project he doesn't agree with, to boot.

In either case, it looks like he thought Star Fox would be a good game for the "Gamepad project"

A lot of this is still very much speculative ( may be referring to... I assumed... perhaps... Would be surprised... remains to be seen... I can only imagine... Would be strange... it looks like... ).

Like I've said before, I find it infinitely more efficient for people to focus on the end product rather than speculating on events happening behind closed doors.

Hiku said:
KLAMarine said:

Who is the 'we' in the quotes ("We spent more than one year... we conducted tests... we fixed the basic form...") and how did their input influence the final outcome?

The "we" should be the "Mr. Miyamoto's software development department" that was mentioned at the end of the financial briefing, who's focus it was to produce titles that make proper use of the Gamepad.

They were put in charge of that task, and so they were the ones testing various game archetypes for this project. Miyamoto said that during this process, he came to the realization that he should make a Starfox game for this project.

And I reiterate he didn't make the new Star Fox game alone. Game development is a collaborative effort, I'm sure you know. Maybe it was Miyamoto who screwed things up or perhaps it was decisions or expectations from higher up that put the team at a disadvantage or maybe some team members were new hires and had trouble contributing to their fullest capabilities? Maybe Miyamoto, as supervising director, ruled with an iron fist and came down hard on the two directors or perhaps he allowed the two directors a free rein?

I have not the slightest clue which it could have been, I was not there to confirm for myself either way and I suspect you and many others speculating endlessly on English-speaking forums were not there either.



bananaking21 said:
No he isn't losing it, because he completely lost it already.

/closethread

You just need to see what he did with paper mario, and it's enough.