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Forums - Nintendo - Will NX be based on a Zen+Polaris APU?

Soundwave said:
JEMC said:

If the recent rumors about Polaris 10 & 11 are true, Polaris 11 is still a 50W chip. I think that would be a bit too much for a handheld.

I think AMD has said under 50 watts for Polaris 11.

I could see it having two power modes ... full power mode when plugged in at home, and perhaps something that downclocks to 1/3 the power consumption for portable play (1920x1080 for home mode, perhaps 1024x600 for portable play?).

That would take it down to 16-ish watts, which a $30 10,000 MaH battery pack could power for 3-4 hours. Probable that Nintendo can push these power savings down even further too.

2.5 TFLOPS performance @ 50 watts would be highly attractive to Nintendo in and of itself too.

AMD hasn't talked about power consumption before.

When AMD first demoed Polaris back in December, they showed a Polaris based PC vs another one with a GTX 950 Nvidia card and how much power both PCs used. Knowing how much power does a GTX 950 use, they calculated that the Polaris card used around 50W.

As for the rest of your post, pure speculation. We don't even know if Polaris 11 can be undervolted and downclocked up to that point.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

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Scisca said:

I kinda fell off the rumour wagon and am no longer up to date with all that we know about NX, ....

We still know nothing about it.



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JEMC said:
Soundwave said:

I think AMD has said under 50 watts for Polaris 11.

I could see it having two power modes ... full power mode when plugged in at home, and perhaps something that downclocks to 1/3 the power consumption for portable play (1920x1080 for home mode, perhaps 1024x600 for portable play?).

That would take it down to 16-ish watts, which a $30 10,000 MaH battery pack could power for 3-4 hours. Probable that Nintendo can push these power savings down even further too.

2.5 TFLOPS performance @ 50 watts would be highly attractive to Nintendo in and of itself too.

AMD hasn't talked about power consumption before.

When AMD first demoed Polaris back in December, they showed a Polaris based PC vs another one with a GTX 950 Nvidia card and how much power both PCs used. Knowing how much power does a GTX 950 use, they calculated that the Polaris card used around 50W.

As for the rest of your post, pure speculation. We don't even know if Polaris 11 can be undervolted and downclocked up to that point.

Well everything about the NX is speculation at this point, lol. Couldn't they just disable the number of usable CUs in a hypothetical "portable mode"? I don't think it'd be that big of a deal. Of course Nintendo would want a customized chip anyway, even if they liked the Polaris tech they wouldn't just throw it into a box and say "job done" I don't think.



Soundwave said:
JEMC said:

AMD hasn't talked about power consumption before.

When AMD first demoed Polaris back in December, they showed a Polaris based PC vs another one with a GTX 950 Nvidia card and how much power both PCs used. Knowing how much power does a GTX 950 use, they calculated that the Polaris card used around 50W.

As for the rest of your post, pure speculation. We don't even know if Polaris 11 can be undervolted and downclocked up to that point.

Well everything about the NX is speculation at this point, lol. Couldn't they just disable the number of usable CUs in a hypothetical "portable mode"? I don't think it'd be that big of a deal. Of course Nintendo would want a customized chip anyway, even if they liked the Polaris tech they wouldn't just throw it into a box and say "job done" I don't think.

I know that they have sometimes done that with desktop cards, but I don't know if it's done on a BIOS level or if it's something that can be turned on and off that easily.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Soundwave said:

I think one of the NX models or maybe the intial model itself is going to be a mobile console. Look at what AMD says about the Polaris 14nm architecture:

Polaris, at least the initial ones, will be aimed at laptops and low-power consumption tasks. AMD said it should enable performance-levels in thin-and-light laptops that have been unheard of before.

That sounds like something that could function in maybe not a DS-type handheld (maybe this is why Nintendo is keeping the 3DS around longer), but a mobile console or tablet sized device?

EDIT: More from AMD

"This advancement has led AMD to see Polaris enabling "incredible form factors", teasing that "this is just the beginning" with performance per watt optimizations to continue."

AMD is claiming the Polaris 11 allows for console-quality graphics (likely referencing the PS4 here) in ultra thin lap top designs.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/7496/amds-next-gen-polaris-gpu-architecture-unveiled-arrives-mid-2016/index4.html

Well I mean in terms of actual volume, the Wii U tablet is actually larger than many thin laptops. So imagine a console the size of a Wii U tablet (sexier looking hopefully) that you can just pick up and move around the house or take outside of the house. You can buy a battery pack for it and it's a portable "game station". It can stream not only to nearby TVs but perhaps also to tablets or phones.

When you bring it home you can dock it to a home dock (supplemental compute device) that increases performance even further. Does that sound like a "new concept"? Can't do that with your PS4. It wouldn't be earth shattering per se like the Wiimote was but it's something new at least.

Something like this is looking likely IMO.

Nintendo have spoke about a whole "new concept" yet I don't think they mean a controller gimmick. Their wording isn't specific to gameplay like it has been in the past regarding the Wii/Wii U and literally every rumour has suggested a touch screen controller which is not "new". I think the "new" concept will be the evolving platform.

A fairly large handheld (Bigger has proven better in sales-3DS XL) that can approach X1 specs when docked. A dock which can be interchanged or equiped with a more powerfull supplementary box, with something just below X1 specs (1TFLOP) being the starting point (NX+default dock) and something slightly (50%) above PS4 being upper range at launch (NX+premium dock). Even at base specs the CPU will be a tad stronger than both PS4/X1, so developers can just worry about scalling for graphics (Resolution, textures, Aliasing).

We simply can't ignore the fact that we haven't recieved a single drop of info about a potential Handheld when the 3DS is due a replacement. 

As much as I want a dedicated 6TFLOP system for $399. Nintendo are likely not doing that.The easiest way to secure third party support is to have a system with a big userbase (Garunteed for a Nintendo handheld) and specs in line o above with current home consoles. Since the generation is still a while off finishing, matching X1 as the minimum specs is a good enough starting place and should be affordable. Outpacing the PS4 by a lot is mostly pointless for the next few years (most PC games on Ultra only look marginally better) unless that power is going towards resolutions above 1080p (a waste IMO)



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Polaris 11 honestly sounds pretty awesome for Nintendo.

2.5TFLOP is a beefy jump from the standard PS4 (more than the XB1-PS4 gap) and Polaris architecture is also better than what the PS4/XB1 had so there would be further improvements.

It should allow basically any PS4 port to run at 1080p at almost 1/3 the power consumption.

And a "portable mode" where the system maybe reduces to 1/2 the compute units for portable play would also be very interesting.

I could see Nintendo netting further power savings perhaps by using a custom memory layout, like say maybe 8GB LPDDR4 RAM + a small pool of high speed HBM RAM ... Nintendo loves their embedded RAM, even though HBM is expensive right now, a small amount of it might be workable. And it could act like eDRAM acts on the Wii U, or maybe they could just use eDRAM itself.



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Soundwave said:

Polaris 11 honestly sounds pretty awesome for Nintendo.

2.5TFLOP is a beefy jump from the standard PS4 (more than the XB1-PS4 gap) and Polaris architecture is also better than what the PS4/XB1 had so there would be further improvements.

It should allow basically any PS4 port to run at 1080p at almost 1/3 the power consumption.

And a "portable mode" where the system maybe reduces to 1/2 the compute units for portable play would also be very interesting.

I could see Nintendo netting further power savings perhaps by using a custom memory layout, like say maybe 8GB LPDDR4 RAM + a small pool of high speed HBM RAM ... Nintendo loves their embedded RAM, even though HBM is expensive right now, a small amount of it might be workable. And it could act like eDRAM acts on the Wii U, or maybe they could just use eDRAM itself.

Seems like polaris + nintendo = gamecube situation.  Nice little box with good power.  2.5 TF is a pretty solid baseline for Nintendo.  Then you have the SCDs factoring in down the line so it all sounds good.  Then a mobile variant that is more tablet sized than typical HH, and we are in business.  Hope Nintendo doesn't screw this up...



se7en7thre3 said:
Soundwave said:

Polaris 11 honestly sounds pretty awesome for Nintendo.

2.5TFLOP is a beefy jump from the standard PS4 (more than the XB1-PS4 gap) and Polaris architecture is also better than what the PS4/XB1 had so there would be further improvements.

It should allow basically any PS4 port to run at 1080p at almost 1/3 the power consumption.

And a "portable mode" where the system maybe reduces to 1/2 the compute units for portable play would also be very interesting.

I could see Nintendo netting further power savings perhaps by using a custom memory layout, like say maybe 8GB LPDDR4 RAM + a small pool of high speed HBM RAM ... Nintendo loves their embedded RAM, even though HBM is expensive right now, a small amount of it might be workable. And it could act like eDRAM acts on the Wii U, or maybe they could just use eDRAM itself.

Seems like polaris + nintendo = gamecube situation.  Nice little box with good power.  2.5 TF is a pretty solid baseline for Nintendo.  Then you have the SCDs factoring in down the line so it all sounds good.  Then a mobile variant that is more tablet sized than typical HH, and we are in business.  Hope Nintendo doesn't screw this up...

Yup lets hope. Just feels like Nintendo will fuck this up some how though, lol. It just fits too good.

A SCD which is basically just a second Polaris 11 at 2.5 TFLOP (no CPU or extra RAM) would be awesome too ... 5 TFLOP of power for 4KTVs.

And this would scale ridiculously well, they could deactive several cores for portable play, but by 2018 or 2019 when 10nm is available they could probably make an even smaller handheld version (with the reduced "portable mode" CUs).

NX w/Polaris 11 = 2.5TFLOPS @ 14 compute units (full power, home mode)

NX Portable Mode = 900 GFLOPS @ 5 compute units (reduced power mode, games run at 1024x600 or 960x540 instead, lower detail settings but same gameplay). Capable of streaming to nearby TVs, tablets, phones.

NX w/SCD = 5 TFLOPS @ 28 compute units, optional for developers to support, can ramp up games to 2K-4K resolution, can also act a server sharing power over the NX network and giving the SCD owner rewards (like free games) for sharing power.

If you want to use the NX as a portable console, Nintendo can sell a seperate battery pack (10,000 MaH large battery) for about $30.

This would be a pretty great NX ecosystem setup.



Isn't Polaris 11 quite weak? On par with a PS4? Which is too weak considering Xbone and PS4 will upgrade his consoles.

I would love for NX to be the very strongest console!