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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Lowers 2016 financial forecast

zorg1000 said:
OneKartVita said:

I've numerous people replying to me in 2 threads about similar things and I'm replying in between matches of rocket league as the next game loads.  Hard to keep track.  What did you say? 

OneKartVita said:

The point is if you can get all those on the one platform why would Nintendo fans buy both?  I'd say about 10m Wii U owners by the end of the gen will also own 3DS. Why would they spend a fortune buying both.  If they put all games on both straight away you're losing sales.  On top of that people are moving away from dedicated handhelds to smartphones so there will be a lot more lost sales.  

 

Bottom line is they won't succeed without 3Rd party support.  Because Nintendo on their own will not grow gen over gen.  They will decrease and their profits from consoles won't increase. 

You aren't factoring in people who own neither a 3DS or Wii U that may buy at least one NX sku.

Lets use the 2015 releases as an example, lets say someone wanted to play Monster Hunter 4, Majora's Mask 3D & Happy Home Designer but those 3 games weren't enough for them to buy a 3DS, lets say they are also interested in Splatoon, Super Mario Maker & Xenoblade X but again those 3 games aren't enough to buy a Wii U. Would that person be more likely to purchase a single device that plays all 6 of those games?

Another factor that you aren't considering is the increase of software sales, certain games have been hindered by the fact they are stuck on a platform with a small userbase. Splatoon & Mario Maker are big successes and will each sell 5+ million but what if they had the entire 3DS audience to sell to as well? These games could very well sell over 10 million.

A third major factor is that Nintendo can diversify their lineup by not having to make 2 separate entries of many franchises. Instead of releasing a Mario Kart title for the handheld then 3 years later another Mario Kart for the console, they can release one and support it with DLC then release a new IP 3 years later. This potentially leads to more Splatoon-like scenarios of new, exciting franchise being created which increases the devices appeal.

Super Smash Bros. being a good example of that. 

 



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ZhugeEX said:
OneKartVita said:
But here comes the catch. The dedicated handheld market will have decreased by a lot when the NX releases this year. IOS / android hadn't taken over but it has now. Sales just won't be as big. That's why I don't expect their past profits to return. The market has declined so much.

Agreed. 

Here is DS vs 3DS. And just keep in mind that you had healthy PSP sales last gen as well (which did better than 3DS) where as this gen you've just had 3DS performing the best with PSV dead. 

 

I remember a few years back when people were calling me, rocketpig and kowenicki and some others ridiculous when we said that the handheld market would be eaten by mobile and convenience gaming. Well; here we are. Hard to explain that decline, especially when you tally in the atrocious Vita sales on top of this.



Mummelmann said:
ZhugeEX said:

Agreed. 

Here is DS vs 3DS. And just keep in mind that you had healthy PSP sales last gen as well (which did better than 3DS) where as this gen you've just had 3DS performing the best with PSV dead. 

 

I remember a few years back when people were calling me, rocketpig and kowenicki and some others ridiculous when we said that the handheld market would be eaten by mobile and convenience gaming. Well; here we are. Hard to explain that decline, especially when you tally in the atrocious Vita sales on top of this.

 

In fact here is my estimate when you include PSP and PS Vita.



ZhugeEX said:
Mummelmann said:

I remember a few years back when people were calling me, rocketpig and kowenicki and some others ridiculous when we said that the handheld market would be eaten by mobile and convenience gaming. Well; here we are. Hard to explain that decline, especially when you tally in the atrocious Vita sales on top of this.

 

In fact here is my estimate when you include PSP and PS Vita.

Ouch, that's a disaster, in relative terms at least. I wonder what the future holds, I've also maintained that the 3DS would be the last dedicated handheld console, that one's still up in the air but it seems likely as ever.



Mummelmann said:
ZhugeEX said:

 

In fact here is my estimate when you include PSP and PS Vita.

Ouch, that's a disaster, in relative terms at least. I wonder what the future holds, I've also maintained that the 3DS would be the last dedicated handheld console, that one's still up in the air but it seems likely as ever.

Congrats to you and anyone else who predicted this.  Because let's be honest not many did.  These stats paint a scary picture.  As ZhugeEX has clearly pointed out the market is collapsing.  From psp/DS to vita/3DS. 

 

I just can't see the NX not continuing the decline.  I will be shocked.  the vita will sell 15-20m so straight away you lose that number from the next gen market as it's getting no successor.  

 

Dedicated handhelds have had their day and the NX might be the swansong. 



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There's always obviously going to be another Nintendo portable, their portables pretty much always outsell their consoles.

Whether or not NX can stop the continued erosion in the portable space is anyone's guess. It's not going to be easy. They have to make a different type of portable IMO, the old standard GBA/DS model is easy pickings for tablets/phones, Nintendo needs to draw a greater difference between those platforms and what they do. 



RolStoppable said:
Mummelmann said:

I remember a few years back when people were calling me, rocketpig and kowenicki and some others ridiculous when we said that the handheld market would be eaten by mobile and convenience gaming. Well; here we are. Hard to explain that decline, especially when you tally in the atrocious Vita sales on top of this.

That's why I've kept this post bookmarked: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3961947

Less than 20 days left for Super Mario or Mario Kart to release on smartphones. It's not going to happen. Likewise, the 3DS won't be the last dedicated handheld console. I mean, come on. The 3DS has been the best selling dedicated gaming hardware in Japan by far, so it's preposterous to suggest that there won't be another handheld.

So the people who called you guys ridiculous for your predictions were right to do so.

Last handheld =/= last dedicated handheld. There's a difference. I don't believe Nintendo, or anyone else, will release another handheld console with very few non-gaming features as extra selling points. We have no idea what they have in store but the DS concept is on a decline and they need something else.
The jury's still out on kowen's statement; within 5 years time could be sometime on 2016, we're only in late february yet (but I don't think we'll see main franchises with bigger budget installments on phones or tablets soon).

"So the people who called you guys ridiculous for your predictions were right to do so."

See; here's the thing, they weren't. I nearly got my head chopped off when I suggested that phones and tablets would harm the sales of dedicated handheld consoles, it was a pretty good call back then (despite being obvious in hindsight) and wasn't a very popular opinion.



After the dip from this i would buy nintendo stock.  These numbers don't include NX or mobile. The numbers were likely reduced to accomodate for the NX taking away sales from Wiiu and 3ds. Particulary Wiiu since the wiiu would have done well had it had Zelda U exclusively and no new console to run against at Christmas.



i blame the 3ds.



RolStoppable said:
Mummelmann said:

I have no idea at one point you would consider there to be a difference between "handheld" and "dedicated handheld". The 3DS already has an internet browser, cameras, movie and music applications. So you are thinking of something like a phone?

kowenicki's predictions were that Nintendo would not make another handheld and instead move their games over to smartphones; that is definitely wrong. I have no recollection of what exactly rocketpig predicted.

There's a notable difference between predicting a decline* and the end of dedicated handheld consoles. Like I said, I don't know your definition. But if the main purpose of a device is to play video games, then it is a dedicated gaming machine. And that's pretty much guaranteed for NX. If you want to feel good about correctly predicting a decline, fine. But you won't be right about the other part which was a much more daring prediction and the one kowenicki and others were ridiculed for.

*A decline was likely to begin with, because Sony had to come up with an answer to the collapsed PSP software market outside of Japan; and the lack of such an answer would have meant that Nintendo would have had to make up for Sony's losses in hardware sales in addition to selling as many units as the DS. The common assumption was that Sony would fail to come up with something.

Actually, saying that there would be a decline and this would be brought about by phones and tablets was also ridiculed; people insisted that these were two separate markets that wouldn't affect one another and that mobile gaming couldn't harm dedicated handhelds.

I'm not sure I envision a phone, not exactly, that would be a poor move and an attempt at breaching an already crowded market (which is a strategy that Nintendo are, rather famously, not good at). Something different, something we may not have seen or experienced before. Perhaps "dedicated handheld" is a poor choice of words. "Traditional handheld" is likely more fitting. Then again, it could boil down to subjective definition, the boys at work use their phones for games 95% of the time, does that make it a dedicated handheld gaming device? It is to them, but not as a concept and core product. I suppose it's kind of like the whole "casual" vs "hardcore" discussion in some ways.