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Forums - Gaming Discussion - I FIGURED it out. PS5!!!

Shiken said:

You literally just described the PS2/launch PS3...new games exclusive to the platform but will natively play previous gen titles.

Nothing will change. We are reaching the point where visual leaps will look smaller no matter how great they are due to the quality we have been able to achieve already. However I have said it before and I will say it again, there is more to these leaps than raw graphical power. There is also processing speed, AI, visual effects outside of resolution, physics, draw distance, and how much info in these virtual worlds can be processed at once. People need to lose this idea that resolution and framerate is what decides the leap, it isn't and it never will be.

Actually I think with VR being a focus in the coming generation hitting a 2k/120fps target will be compulsory, at the expense of better visual effects/complexity. But as you said we're kind of at a point of diminishing returns when it comes to graphics, and over the next 15 years or so we'll just be inching our way towards photo-realism and shouldnt expect any dramatic leaps until then.

Also I'm pretty sure the hardware we have currently is capable of much smarter AI, it's just that it's not progressed much in the last decade for various reasons (like cost to implement, "smart" ai not scoring well with game testers bc it may seem frustrating and innaccessible, multiplayer focus etc.). Not sure about this tho I don't really know much about it just remember reading about it awhile ago.



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Normchacho said:

One of the big issues is going to be that games that come out on the PS4 are going to need to look and perform up to the standard this generation has set. Let me explain;

Lets say that The Witcher 5 comes out for the PS5, and it's world is twice the size of the map in The Witcher 3, has more NCPS, more foliage, and is just in general much larger. There is no way that game would work on the PS4 while maintaining a level of fidelity and polish that gamers have come to expect from a PS4.

You are right but for one little thing. It all boils down to choices. 

Take the witcher 5 in your example. No matter how big or good a game it is on the PS5. They could make the same game run on the PS4 even if its at 720p with toned down models, textures, geometry, lighting...etc. 

And that will be OK. cause anyone buying the game for the PS4, will know they are in truth buying a PS5 game and that if they wanted to see the game run at its best, then they would have to shell out for the PS5. 

This dilema is by no means a deal breaker. Look at destiny. It also being available on the PS360 didn't stop it from selling a ton on the PS41. 



Intrinsic said:
Normchacho said:

One of the big issues is going to be that games that come out on the PS4 are going to need to look and perform up to the standard this generation has set. Let me explain;

Lets say that The Witcher 5 comes out for the PS5, and it's world is twice the size of the map in The Witcher 3, has more NCPS, more foliage, and is just in general much larger. There is no way that game would work on the PS4 while maintaining a level of fidelity and polish that gamers have come to expect from a PS4.

You are right but for one little thing. It all boils down to choices. 

Take the witcher 5 in your example. No matter how big or good a game it is on the PS5. They could make the same game run on the PS4 even if its at 720p with toned down models, textures, geometry, lighting...etc. 

And that will be OK. cause anyone buying the game for the PS4, will know they are in truth buying a PS5 game and that if they wanted to see the game run at its best, then they would have to shell out for the PS5. 

This dilema is by no means a deal breaker. Look at destiny. It also being available on the PS360 didn't stop it from selling a ton on the PS41. 

They could, but the game would likely look and/or run worse than The Witcher 3 does, since it would be so much larger.

On top of that, are developers going to want to make dumbed down versions of their games all gen? I mean, look at games like Shadow of Mordor, or Black Ops III? Sure, those games are on the last gen consoles...but they suffer for it. Could you imagine what The Last of Us, or GTA V would have been like on PS2?

Plus, if devs an publishers already put games on last gen consoles for a period of time...why would it make sense to do it all gen next time around?



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Intrinsic said:

Just read the bolded bit if u aren't interested in any backstory. 

 

Ok. so lets get one thing straight. In gaming, its all about software. You sell as much software as possible and you make as much money as possible. Problem is, to get all those games sold, you have to have a fairly large install base. 

Now let's look at gaming hardware. Technically speaking, a new generation is warranted when it's possible getting the most powerful hardware into the most affordable box. So basically, how much can you get into a $400 box to JumpStart a new generation? But there is another part to that equation. How much better is that new box going to be to persuade gamers that it's worth it making the jump. 

Now the meat of my theory, there simply won't be enough to warrant such a jump with the PS5. Simply put, if the difference between every game on the PS5 compared to the PS4 is 4k@30fps/1080p@60fps when compared to a PS4 running the same game at 900p@30fps; then we'll, that's no difference at all. 

So I think the PS5 will mark the first full cross generational generation. I believe that through out the life of the PS5 every game made for it will also be released for the PS4. Albeit at lower settings.  I even believe that both consoles will run the exact same OS. This way, those that want to play at 4k or at 60fps with my polished visuals can "upgrade" to the PS5. Those that are ok with 1080p/900p@30fps will stick with the PS4. But everyone gets the same games. 

I know this doesn't sound anywhere as good as a full on generational leap, but I think we are past the point where we will have generational leaps as seen with the psx to PS2...etc. I mean lets face it. We are past a point where the hardware of a platform completely prohibits certain games from being made on it. We are in the feature benefits era. Where the difference between higher and lower powered hardware will come down to no more than pixels, framerates and a higher setting of certain effects. 

Discuss damn it!!!!!!

I think that is wishful thinking.  I agree that we are in a period of diminishing returns with graphics, but to me that means that Sony will want to totally change the PS5 architecture to make it better.

The original XBox used a PC based architecture, yet you cannot play original XBox titles on the XBox One.



I don't think so. That would be a terrible idea from a business point of view, Sony will actually want to give its costumers a reason to buy a PS5 besides the same games with better graphics. I agree that the system architecture will allow for a smoother transition than ever between generations and probably for backwards compatibility too, that would be smart for Sony because PS4 users will see value on the fact that they would be able to just carry over all of their games to PS5 and Sony would be able to just keep selling their existing PS4 games to new PS5 users or PS5 users who had a PS4 but didn't play some games, all without needing to invest further on re-releasing those games.

I also think Sony will want to push VR as an optional, but crucial feature of the PS5. The first PSVR that comes out later this year already has some pretty nice tech specs (the most important being 120hz refresh rate), so it would be smart if Sony allowed the PS5 to be backwards compatible with it since it's an expensive accessory and people would be pissed off if the were required to buy a newer one. The PSVR could eventually receive a revision specific for the PS5 with a higher resolution and some refinements, but that would be optional, just like buying a newer TV is. Sony could even offer the two versions by the PS5 gen like it does with its headsets.



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DM235 said:

I think that is wishful thinking.  I agree that we are in a period of diminishing returns with graphics, but to me that means that Sony will want to totally change the PS5 architecture to make it better.

The original XBox used a PC based architecture, yet you cannot play original XBox titles on the XBox One.

Totally changing the architecture of the PS5 makes zero sense at all. Absolutely none. There is not a single front that going with a proprietary architecture will be beneficial to Sony or anyone for that matter right now. 

The PS5 will be based on an x86 -64bit architecture just like how the PS4 is. That alone guarantees compatibility with the PS4. Be it BC (which will be easier) or FC. 

Feature wise there will obviously be differences. Mostly due to more advanced fab processes (14nm/10nm which literally means they can cram in 4-6 times more cores on a similarly sized die) but also due advances in memory (HBM which will allow for 500+GB/s mem bandwidth). But what all these translates to is just more of everything. Higher rez textures, more pixels, more geometry (models, npcs...etc)

But everything I just mentioned can still be made to run just fine on the PS4 albeit with less of everything. 

If Sony were to change the architecture and do something like they did with the PS3 (making already hard HD development even harder) then they would have to be the single most stupid company on the planet cause it will mean they just pissed away everything that made the PS4 the developers choice console. 



Yea, not going to happen. The PS5 is going to be a really nice jump from PS4. And the gen will play out exactly like all those before. The previous gen will get supported for about 2 years after the new gen is out, longer with yearly releases, and then support will dry up.



If only they would've given us that choice from the start and not make us waste money on potatoes in the first place.



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Lawlight said:
ArchangelMadzz said:
I genuinely think next gen could still have 30fps. They would use the extra power to get better visuals because they know people don't mind playing at 30fps now.

Every game coming out now can be 1080p 60fps it's just the devs want visuals more.

I doubt it. Graphics have nowhere else to go (unless they drastically increase the budget of the game). So, because visuals will stay mostly the same, things lik framerate and resolution will go up. Similar to how Uncharted 1-3 went from 720p/30fps for the PS3 to 1080p/60fps for the PS4.

Yes but Uncharted 4 is still 1080p 30fps

They can always increase polygon count, textures, particles etc. I just think they'll go with maximum visuals before they increase the frame rate because a lot of a consoles sales come from the prettier new experience.



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I actually suspected this would happen with the ps4, so I made a thread called ps3.5 xbox540.
It's not a bad idea.
But like some people said, it makes a hard sell to people who already own a ps4