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Forums - Politics Discussion - Danish teen fought off her attacker - now she'll face fine. A 17-year-old girl who was physically and sexually attacked in Sønderborg will herself face charges for being in possession of Pepper spay,

sc94597 on 27 January 2016
pokoko said:
sc94597 said:

Even though his example was poor, he brings up a good point. I can kill somebody more effectively with a rock than with pepper spray. Pepper spray is meant to suppress attackers, not kill them. 

But it is believed that it can lead to complications that result in death.  That's the entire reason why some people believe the police should not use it.  

I haven't even said whether or not I think it should be illegal but, as someone who has been caught in an enclosed space when someone used it while playing around, I have zero problem with it being discussed.  It's not a joke.  Pepper spray is bad shit that is not to be taken lightly and the potential for abuse is pretty damn high.  Imagine someone spraying it in a night club or at a clerk before grabbing their goods and running.  The way people have been talking in this thread, you'd think the only possible use is by potential rape victims, which is painfully naive.  

Has it been shown rather than just "believed"? And in what proportion of cases? Usually the deaths by pepper spray are due to individual complications (like a heart condition, asthma, or an allergy.) That is why deaths by pepper spray just aren't that common other than when the police use it on groups of people, which is reasonable to argue against. If somebody wants to kill another person, pepper spray is a crappy option.  Which brings me to my next point. 

Why don't these things which you imagine can happen (other than the odd occurence ) - happen often in countries in which pepper spray is legal and very easy to get? (Note you used the phrase " the potential for abuse is pretty damn high". How many people die of pepper spray a year? How many by civilians and not police/military? How many people prevent harm to themselves by using (or threatening to use) pepper spray a year? If I were to rob somebody, kill somebody, etc a knife (or in countries which allow them - gun) is a better bet, and the first is much more easily available. 

Furthermore, if the concern is that people die from its use, why does Denmark allow police to carry pepper spray? Why especially when most pepper spray deaths are by police hands? 

 





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Cubedramirez on 27 January 2016

My heart bleeds for Europe. Their elite have opened the doors to a culture of barbarism. These cultures cannot coexist and the only silver lining is that in America we will be able to see the horror as it happens and have the opportunity to kick out the same progressive elites who would bring in that same element to harm our women and children.



Cubedramirez on 27 January 2016
AnthonyW86 said:
I don't see the problem here. She is fined for possession and usage of an illegal weapon, not for defending herself. I'm pretty sure if she asks for some public donations she can easily raise the sum of the fine.

 


The problem is that it is illegal in the first place. Self preservation and having the means to properly do so is a human right. 

This is what the progressives in America want, this type of Utopia. Thank God for the media willing to report items like this so state side we have a chance to stop it. 



pokoko on 27 January 2016
sc94597 said:
pokoko said:

But it is believed that it can lead to complications that result in death.  That's the entire reason why some people believe the police should not use it.  

I haven't even said whether or not I think it should be illegal but, as someone who has been caught in an enclosed space when someone used it while playing around, I have zero problem with it being discussed.  It's not a joke.  Pepper spray is bad shit that is not to be taken lightly and the potential for abuse is pretty damn high.  Imagine someone spraying it in a night club or at a clerk before grabbing their goods and running.  The way people have been talking in this thread, you'd think the only possible use is by potential rape victims, which is painfully naive.  

Has it been shown rather than just "believed"? And in what proportion of cases? Usually the deaths by pepper spray are due to individual complications (like a heart condition, asthma, or an allergy.) That is why deaths by pepper spray just aren't that common other than when the police use it on groups of people, which is reasonable to argue against. If somebody wants to kill another person, pepper spray is a crappy option.  Which brings me to my next point. 

Why don't these things which you imagine can happen (other than the odd occurence ) - happen often in countries in which pepper spray is legal and very easy to get? (Note you used the phrase " the potential for abuse is pretty damn high". How many people die of pepper spray a year? How many by civilians and not police/military? How many people prevent harm to themselves by using (or threatening to use) pepper spray a year? If I were to rob somebody, kill somebody, etc a knife (or in countries which allow them - gun) is a better bet, and the first is much more easily available. 

Furthermore, if the concern is that people die from its use, why does Denmark allow police to carry pepper spray? Why especially when most pepper spray deaths are by police hands? 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/us/21-die-in-stampede-of-1500-at-chicago-nightclub.html?pagewanted=all





binary solo on 27 January 2016

It's illegal to own pepper spray and the like here in New Zealand as well.

I would think pretty much any aerosol spray is going to be sufficiently annoying to give you the chance to get away. So I would suggest having a small can of insect repellant (citronella is extremely irritating) or even deodorant on hand. That way you don't possess a "restricted weapon" but still have a means of defending yourself, in a handy purse sized can.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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bouzane on 27 January 2016
pokoko said:
sc94597 said:

Has it been shown rather than just "believed"? And in what proportion of cases? Usually the deaths by pepper spray are due to individual complications (like a heart condition, asthma, or an allergy.) That is why deaths by pepper spray just aren't that common other than when the police use it on groups of people, which is reasonable to argue against. If somebody wants to kill another person, pepper spray is a crappy option.  Which brings me to my next point. 

Why don't these things which you imagine can happen (other than the odd occurence ) - happen often in countries in which pepper spray is legal and very easy to get? (Note you used the phrase " the potential for abuse is pretty damn high". How many people die of pepper spray a year? How many by civilians and not police/military? How many people prevent harm to themselves by using (or threatening to use) pepper spray a year? If I were to rob somebody, kill somebody, etc a knife (or in countries which allow them - gun) is a better bet, and the first is much more easily available. 

Furthermore, if the concern is that people die from its use, why does Denmark allow police to carry pepper spray? Why especially when most pepper spray deaths are by police hands? 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/us/21-die-in-stampede-of-1500-at-chicago-nightclub.html?pagewanted=all

 

Yeah, those deaths would have also occurred if somebody had simply pulled a firealarm (or shouted the word fire) because if you read the article you would have noticed that the club was over double the legal occupancy and several exits had been barred / locked. Sorry but that is a pathetic attempt to justify nanny-state laws that prohibit a defensive tool that could be used to prevent rape (or worse). Sure, pepper spray / mace can be used offensively but so can just about anything I put my hands on. I can use a can of aerosol deodorant and a lighter to quickly and efficiently burn most buildings to the ground for example.



binary solo on 27 January 2016
Cubedramirez said:
AnthonyW86 said:
I don't see the problem here. She is fined for possession and usage of an illegal weapon, not for defending herself. I'm pretty sure if she asks for some public donations she can easily raise the sum of the fine.

 


The problem is that it is illegal in the first place. Self preservation and having the means to properly do so is a human right. 

This is what the progressives in America want, this type of Utopia. Thank God for the media willing to report items like this so state side we have a chance to stop it. 

Yeah because Denmark has such a high and out of control crime rate and the USA doesn't. Your system is working so damned well.

One of the problems with casual ownership of weapons is that if you are the physically weaker person in an encounter then there's a good chance the weapon will be taken off you and used on you. Basically if you want to be competent in self defence you have to train and prepare. And if you do that you are probably better off training and preparing for unarmed self defence, because that way you are always able to defend yourself even if you are caught naked in the shower.





“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Trunkin on 27 January 2016

Should have had one of these babies. Unless, of course, "tactical" flashlights are also illegal in Denmark.



pokoko on 27 January 2016
bouzane said:
pokoko said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/us/21-die-in-stampede-of-1500-at-chicago-nightclub.html?pagewanted=all

 

Yeah, those deaths would have also occurred if somebody had simply pulled a firealarm (or shouted the word fire) because if you read the article you would have noticed that the club was over double the legal occupancy and several exits had been barred / locked. Sorry but that is a pathetic attempt to justify nanny-state laws that prohibit a defensive tool that could be used to prevent rape (or worse). Sure, pepper spray / mace can be used offensively but so can just about anything I put my hands on. I can use a can of aerosol deodorant and a lighter to quickly and efficiently burn most buildings to the ground for example.

Looks like you want to be an ass for no reason in a simple discussion.  Sorry, but that's a pathetic attempt to justify anything.  Oh, you can kill someone with a cat, so nothing should be illegal, ever, is such an immature way of thinking.  You can die in a crash at 45mph so why even have speed limits?  Obviously, as with anything, it's about risk versus reward.  Also, if you had read my posts, you'd know that I never said it should be illegal, only why it was probably made illegal.  



teamsilent13 on 27 January 2016

The more I hear about Europe's immigration issues the more I want Trump to win.