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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Corporate Health of Sony, Nintendo and MS

Swordmasterman on 25 January 2016
KLAMarine said:

Eddie_Raja said:

KLAMarine said:
Eddie_Raja said:

and the 3DS isn't going to sell even half as well as its predecessor.   In fact (outside of the Wii) every Nintendo home console has sold worse than the one before it.  If they start hemoraging money as bad as Sony used to it would destroy them pretty quick.

I doubt it'll get that bad. For starters, Nintendo's not in the mobile phone business. Apple and Samsung have that on lockdown.

It is already that bad my friend.  One more descent into lower sales and things will start to look hopeless.

I don't recall Nintendo ever posting a loss to the tune of $1.2 billion.

Eddie_Raja said:

Not sure why you keep denying that the massive size of Sony/MS gives them armor.

Because WHEN YOU DO THE MATH using OP's figures, you'll see Sony's armor is not as thick as you think.

Let's do the math using the following formula:

cash and short term investments + assets - liabilities - debts = "armor"

Nintendo:

$7.6 billion + $11.3 billion - $1.5 billion - $103,000 = $17.4 billion

Sony:

$15.7 billion + $132 billion - $107.6 billion - $18 billion = $22.1 billion

Microsoft:

$96.5 billion + $176.2 billion - $96.1 billion - $7.5 billion = $169.1 billion

As one can see, Sony's "armor" is much much closer to Nintendo's "armor" than to Microsoft's "armor". Microsoft's "armor" is huge compared to Sony's "armor", they're not even comparable.

With that said, the problem for Sony is that Sony is a much larger company than Nintendo. Sony employs about 130,000 people (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/) while Nintendo employs about 4,000 to 5,000 (http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/, https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees).

Sony has more people on the payroll than Nintendo, they have more wages to pay, more facilities to pay for but only have about $4.7 billion more in "armor" than Nintendo and about $147 billion less "armor" than Microsoft.

The reasoning above is why in my opinion, Sony is the weakest among the three.

 

I'm not a business major so my opinion is rather worthless and if any business majors reading this post detect faulty reasoning in my logic, please let me know.

Actually, who are in more markets like Sony, and Microsoft, have a "Extra Armor", because if some market goes wrong, you can cut it, re-negociate the Debts that you have, and move to more profitable Markets, and with the Assets, and the Cash, you have in bank, is enought to make it before you went Bankrupt, but Nintendo, would only became small if it fell, but not go Bankrupt, Actually none of those 3 companies have a possibility of go Bankrupt, because Those companies made a lot of money from gaming, and other divisions, and are the only 3 Companies on the Console Market.





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KLAMarine on 25 January 2016
CaptainExplosion said:

Don't bother trying to reason with him. He's about as smart as a rock with an acidic tumour growing out of it.

I have an addiction to discussion.



KLAMarine on 25 January 2016
KLAMarine said:

Eddie_Raja said:

KLAMarine said:
Eddie_Raja said:

and the 3DS isn't going to sell even half as well as its predecessor.   In fact (outside of the Wii) every Nintendo home console has sold worse than the one before it.  If they start hemoraging money as bad as Sony used to it would destroy them pretty quick.

I doubt it'll get that bad. For starters, Nintendo's not in the mobile phone business. Apple and Samsung have that on lockdown.

It is already that bad my friend.  One more descent into lower sales and things will start to look hopeless.

I don't recall Nintendo ever posting a loss to the tune of $1.2 billion.

Eddie_Raja said:

Not sure why you keep denying that the massive size of Sony/MS gives them armor.

Because WHEN YOU DO THE MATH using OP's figures, you'll see Sony's armor is not as thick as you think.

Let's do the math using the following formula:

cash and short term investments + assets - liabilities - debts = "armor"

Nintendo:

$7.6 billion + $11.3 billion - $1.5 billion - $103,000 = $17.4 billion

Sony:

$15.7 billion + $132 billion - $107.6 billion - $18 billion = $22.1 billion

Microsoft:

$96.5 billion + $176.2 billion - $96.1 billion - $7.5 billion = $169.1 billion

As one can see, Sony's "armor" is much much closer to Nintendo's "armor" than to Microsoft's "armor". Microsoft's "armor" is huge compared to Sony's "armor", they're not even comparable.

With that said, the problem for Sony is that Sony is a much larger company than Nintendo. Sony employs about 130,000 people (http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/) while Nintendo employs about 4,000 to 5,000 (http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/, https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees).

Sony has more people on the payroll than Nintendo, they have more wages to pay, more facilities to pay for but only have about $4.7 billion more in "armor" than Nintendo and about $147 billion less "armor" than Microsoft.

The reasoning above is why in my opinion, Sony is the weakest among the three.

 

I'm not a business major so my opinion is rather worthless and if any business majors reading this post detect faulty reasoning in my logic, please let me know.

*UPDATE*

the three links above seem to have been fudged up by the text around them. Here they are corrected:

On Sony's employee count of about 130,000:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/

On Nintendo's employee count of about 4,000 to 5,000:

http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/

https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees



KLAMarine on 25 January 2016
CaptainExplosion said:

Guess Nintendo really has been better off than Sony right now.

Sony took a beating from ps3 and cell phones. Also televisions from what I hear and Vaio had to be sold off.

 

Take this with a grain of salt however, I'm not looking at any figures right now.



AsGryffynn on 25 January 2016

I no longer reply him with anything short of short phrases...

Pan Am was a good company. They are also not the only one and they are not back...

RIP world's best airline...



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Eddie_Raja on 25 January 2016
KLAMarine said:

Eddie_Raja said:

KLAMarine said:
Eddie_Raja said:

and the 3DS isn't going to sell even half as well as its predecessor.   In fact (outside of the Wii) every Nintendo home console has sold worse than the one before it.  If they start hemoraging money as bad as Sony used to it would destroy them pretty quick.

I doubt it'll get that bad. For starters, Nintendo's not in the mobile phone business. Apple and Samsung have that on lockdown.

It is already that bad my friend.  One more descent into lower sales and things will start to look hopeless.

I don't recall Nintendo ever posting a loss to the tune of $1.2 billion.

Eddie_Raja said:

Not sure why you keep denying that the massive size of Sony/MS gives them armor.

Because WHEN YOU DO THE MATH using OP's figures, you'll see Sony's armor is not as thick as you think.

Let's do the math using the following formula:

cash and short term investments + assets - liabilities - debts = "armor"

Nintendo:

$7.6 billion + $11.3 billion - $1.5 billion - $103,000 = $17.4 billion

Sony:

$15.7 billion + $132 billion - $107.6 billion - $18 billion = $22.1 billion

Microsoft:

$96.5 billion + $176.2 billion - $96.1 billion - $7.5 billion = $169.1 billion

As one can see, Sony's "armor" is much much closer to Nintendo's "armor" than to Microsoft's "armor". Microsoft's "armor" is huge compared to Sony's "armor", they're not even comparable.

With that said, the problem for Sony is that Sony is a much larger company than Nintendo. Sony employs about 130,000 people ( http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/ ) while Nintendo employs about 4,000 to 5,000 ( http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/ , https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees ).

Sony has more people on the payroll than Nintendo, they have more wages to pay, more facilities to pay for but only have about $4.7 billion more in "armor" than Nintendo and about $147 billion less "armor" than Microsoft.

The reasoning above is why in my opinion, Sony is the weakest among the three.

 

I'm not a business major so my opinion is rather worthless and if any business majors reading this post detect faulty reasoning in my logic, please let me know.

-Omg you just keep ignoring my main points.  When did I say Sony hasn't F'd up?  NEVER - they messed up huge.  I never said Sony is insanely better.

-My main point, from the get go is that Sony is not weaker than Nintendo longterm.  Your math proves that.

-What you are not paying attention to with Nintendo is the trajectory.  Yes they have never lost as much money as Sony up until NOW, but recently they posted losses - an unheard of thing for Nintendo.  That would be like if Apple posted losses.   

-Right now Sony is doing ok, and more importantly Playstation is doing crazy well (Which is what really matters).  Sony's hardest times are over and so it is silly to keep acting like they are falling apart.  They survived, and it is over.  If Nintendo F's up one more gen we will sit and see how well they survive, and they have far worse chances than Sony did if it gets bad.

-One thing you have to remember is that you are looking at a Sony AFTER they survived a crash.  They started with far more than Nintendo has now.

I think there is overall a lot of potential for the NX to revitalize Nintendo, and so I am by no means saying they are doomed.  What I am saying is that they can't keep screwing up for much longer.  They need to get their crap together before things get terrible because they cannot survive the blow Sony took 7 years ago.

 





Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

Spade on 25 January 2016
kowenicki said:
Ruler said:

it tells you everything 

Really. How much was Sony revenue from 2012 to 2015?

Now.... how much money did they actually make? Profit?

 

Revenue is vanity.

Profit is sanity.

Cash is king.

When I was a Business major, I took a Finance class, and that was the first thing my Professor said to us  





https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png%5B/IMG%5D">https://www.trueachievements.com/gamer/SliferCynDelta"><img src="https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png

KLAMarine on 25 January 2016
Eddie_Raja said:
KLAMarine said:

Eddie_Raja said:

Not sure why you keep denying that the massive size of Sony/MS gives them armor.

Because WHEN YOU DO THE MATH using OP's figures, you'll see Sony's armor is not as thick as you think.

Let's do the math using the following formula:

cash and short term investments + assets - liabilities - debts = "armor"

Nintendo:

$7.6 billion + $11.3 billion - $1.5 billion - $103,000 = $17.4 billion

Sony:

$15.7 billion + $132 billion - $107.6 billion - $18 billion = $22.1 billion

Microsoft:

$96.5 billion + $176.2 billion - $96.1 billion - $7.5 billion = $169.1 billion

As one can see, Sony's "armor" is much much closer to Nintendo's "armor" than to Microsoft's "armor". Microsoft's "armor" is huge compared to Sony's "armor", they're not even comparable.

With that said, the problem for Sony is that Sony is a much larger company than Nintendo. Sony employs about 130,000 people ( http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/ ) while Nintendo employs about 4,000 to 5,000 ( http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/ , https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees ).

Sony has more people on the payroll than Nintendo, they have more wages to pay, more facilities to pay for but only have about $4.7 billion more in "armor" than Nintendo and about $147 billion less "armor" than Microsoft.

The reasoning above is why in my opinion, Sony is the weakest among the three.

 

I'm not a business major so my opinion is rather worthless and if any business majors reading this post detect faulty reasoning in my logic, please let me know.

-My main point, from the get go is that Sony is not weaker than Nintendo longterm.  Your math proves that.

How does my math prove your main point?



DonFerrari on 26 January 2016
Eddie_Raja said:
KLAMarine said:

Eddie_Raja said:It is already that bad my friend.  One more descent into lower sales and things will start to look hopeless.

I don't recall Nintendo ever posting a loss to the tune of $1.2 billion.

Eddie_Raja said:

Not sure why you keep denying that the massive size of Sony/MS gives them armor.

Because WHEN YOU DO THE MATH using OP's figures, you'll see Sony's armor is not as thick as you think.

Let's do the math using the following formula:

cash and short term investments + assets - liabilities - debts = "armor"

Nintendo:

$7.6 billion + $11.3 billion - $1.5 billion - $103,000 = $17.4 billion

Sony:

$15.7 billion + $132 billion - $107.6 billion - $18 billion = $22.1 billion

Microsoft:

$96.5 billion + $176.2 billion - $96.1 billion - $7.5 billion = $169.1 billion

As one can see, Sony's "armor" is much much closer to Nintendo's "armor" than to Microsoft's "armor". Microsoft's "armor" is huge compared to Sony's "armor", they're not even comparable.

With that said, the problem for Sony is that Sony is a much larger company than Nintendo. Sony employs about 130,000 people ( http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/ ) while Nintendo employs about 4,000 to 5,000 ( http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/ , https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees ).

Sony has more people on the payroll than Nintendo, they have more wages to pay, more facilities to pay for but only have about $4.7 billion more in "armor" than Nintendo and about $147 billion less "armor" than Microsoft.

The reasoning above is why in my opinion, Sony is the weakest among the three.

 

I'm not a business major so my opinion is rather worthless and if any business majors reading this post detect faulty reasoning in my logic, please let me know.

-Omg you just keep ignoring my main points.  When did I say Sony hasn't F'd up?  NEVER - they messed up huge.  I never said Sony is insanely better.

-My main point, from the get go is that Sony is not weaker than Nintendo longterm.  Your math proves that.

-What you are not paying attention to with Nintendo is the trajectory.  Yes they have never lost as much money as Sony up until NOW, but recently they posted losses - an unheard of thing for Nintendo.  That would be like if Apple posted losses.   

-Right now Sony is doing ok, and more importantly Playstation is doing crazy well (Which is what really matters).  Sony's hardest times are over and so it is silly to keep acting like they are falling apart.  They survived, and it is over.  If Nintendo F's up one more gen we will sit and see how well they survive, and they have far worse chances than Sony did if it gets bad.

-One thing you have to remember is that you are looking at a Sony AFTER they survived a crash.  They started with far more than Nintendo has now.

I think there is overall a lot of potential for the NX to revitalize Nintendo, and so I am by no means saying they are doomed.  What I am saying is that they can't keep screwing up for much longer.  They need to get their crap together before things get terrible because they cannot survive the blow Sony took 7 years ago.

Situation of assets and liabilities were a lot better in 2000.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Eddie_Raja on 26 January 2016
KLAMarine said:
Eddie_Raja said:
KLAMarine said:

Eddie_Raja said:

Not sure why you keep denying that the massive size of Sony/MS gives them armor.

Because WHEN YOU DO THE MATH using OP's figures, you'll see Sony's armor is not as thick as you think.

Let's do the math using the following formula:

cash and short term investments + assets - liabilities - debts = "armor"

Nintendo:

$7.6 billion + $11.3 billion - $1.5 billion - $103,000 = $17.4 billion

Sony:

$15.7 billion + $132 billion - $107.6 billion - $18 billion = $22.1 billion

Microsoft:

$96.5 billion + $176.2 billion - $96.1 billion - $7.5 billion = $169.1 billion

As one can see, Sony's "armor" is much much closer to Nintendo's "armor" than to Microsoft's "armor". Microsoft's "armor" is huge compared to Sony's "armor", they're not even comparable.

With that said, the problem for Sony is that Sony is a much larger company than Nintendo. Sony employs about 130,000 people ( http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report/employees/info/ ) while Nintendo employs about 4,000 to 5,000 ( http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of%C2%A0nintendo%C2%A0employees/ , https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/NTDOY.PK--Number-of-Employees ).

Sony has more people on the payroll than Nintendo, they have more wages to pay, more facilities to pay for but only have about $4.7 billion more in "armor" than Nintendo and about $147 billion less "armor" than Microsoft.

The reasoning above is why in my opinion, Sony is the weakest among the three.

 

I'm not a business major so my opinion is rather worthless and if any business majors reading this post detect faulty reasoning in my logic, please let me know.

-My main point, from the get go is that Sony is not weaker than Nintendo longterm.  Your math proves that.

How does my math prove your main point?

At this point I have to wonder if you are just messing with me.  Your math clearly showed that Sony is worth more money overall.





Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]