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Forums - General - 62 richest people has as much money as poorest 3.5 billion humans

WolfpackN64 said:
Teeqoz said:

 


Communism is probably the most unfair political system ever envisioned. It is equal (in theory at least. Has never, and won't ever actually happen, but that's not important to this discussion), but not fair. Distributing things equally is about as unfair as it gets.

Now, I'm a socialist, so I want everyone the get the same opportunities for success. I think we've managed that pretty well in Norway. But that does not mean everyone will achieve the same success, and that does not mean everyone deserves the same success, and it deffinitely does not mean that everyone are entitled to have as much as everyone else. It also doesn't mean that poor people should be left on their own with no help from others.

I'm not proposing absolute income equality in sé. What I see as communist is a system where large scale inequality can never happen, a system where cooperation and sharing is the base for society, not competition, and where the vast majority has real democratic powers (not the "put-your-ballot-in-a-box-every-five-years-and-let-us-f*-everything-up), a system where the economy and energy sector is democratically planned by everyone (and not like the old USSR by a large beaurocracy).

I might have been a socialist, but the social-democrats here (in Belgium) are nothing more than a bunch of left-wing capitalists. They never look for any real change in the system, the only thing they do is correct the margin a bit. The Greens aren't much (if at all) better.

 



 

So what you really want is an exagerated version of the Scandinavian/Nordic socialist model? You should live in Norway for a little while, you'd realize this system works pretty much perfectly just the way it is. There are of course poltical issues here, but as far as the socialst system goes, I'd say if a country could afford this (the Norwegian/Scandinavian) system, it is the best way to do it.



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Zackasaurus-rex said:
It is indicative of a disgusting economic and political system.

And sociopaths who know how to play the system and manipulate people to their advantage through politicking. Very wrong, especially those CEO's who don't even own the business and yet earn hundreds of millions a year.





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Teeqoz said:
WolfpackN64 said:

I'm not proposing absolute income equality in sé. What I see as communist is a system where large scale inequality can never happen, a system where cooperation and sharing is the base for society, not competition, and where the vast majority has real democratic powers (not the "put-your-ballot-in-a-box-every-five-years-and-let-us-f*-everything-up), a system where the economy and energy sector is democratically planned by everyone (and not like the old USSR by a large beaurocracy).

I might have been a socialist, but the social-democrats here (in Belgium) are nothing more than a bunch of left-wing capitalists. They never look for any real change in the system, the only thing they do is correct the margin a bit. The Greens aren't much (if at all) better.

 



 

So what you really want is an exagerated version of the Scandinavian/Nordic socialist model? You should live in Norway for a little while, you'd realize this system works pretty much perfectly just the way it is. There are of course poltical issues here, but as far as the socialst system goes, I'd say if a country could afford this (the Norwegian/Scandinavian) system, it is the best way to do it.

I know the Scandinavian countries are doing pretty good, even if they don't have the perfect system as I envisioned (I really mean going away from liberal democracy to something like democratic confederalism, but anyway). As I'm a fan of nature, that would also be a plus, and Norway isn't too far from Belgium.

Only problem is... my girlfriend canNOT stand the cold :(





to the op,
you shouldn't find it disappointing at all... and the fact that you do illustrates that you don't have a very good understanding of human nature.
people are not born equal. some are smarter, some work harder, some are exceedingly lazy, some couldn't find their way out of a three row cornfield maze even if they had a map.
the inequity of income is nothing more than a proof of the inequity among people. for every bill gates and warren buffet, there's a million Joe Smiths and Jane Doe's.
at first glance, life certainly appears to be unfair, but if you look a little deeper, you'll find that generally people get exactly what they deserve and exist right up to the limits of their potential.
we are all animals, and the only definable difference between us and those we hoard together at the zoo, is that we have the ability to believe that we are not animals.
and right there is the root of the problem; our own awareness.
for every lion that resides as the head of his pride, there are multiple others that follow, because that's the limit of their capabilities.
we are truly no different and money, riches, fortunes to dream about, are society's way of that same, exact expression.



fatslob-:O said:
It's absolutely fair IMO ...

Most of the wealth is earned, not inherited and saying otherwise is denying ...

Actually, that's not true. As of today, a German study (Freie Universität Berlin &  Deutsches Institut für Wirtschaftsforschung = prestigious) attested 80% of the European millionaires captial to be handed on from one generation to another above those who possess more than 2,5€ mio. Actually meaning all people who share the biggest piece of the pie.



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Money is overrated.



...Let the Sony Domination continue with the PS4...

As Richard Nixon famously proclaimed: we're all Keynesians now.

The sad truth is, he was correct.



WolfpackN64 said:

I know the Scandinavian countries are doing pretty good, even if they don't have the perfect system as I envisioned (I really mean going away from liberal democracy to something like democratic confederalism, but anyway). As I'm a fan of nature, that would also be a plus, and Norway isn't too far from Belgium.

Only problem is... my girlfriend canNOT stand the cold :(

 

Tell your girlfriend it's alright. We have banished the cold. Central heating, insulated housing, double/triple-ply windows, heated cars, , instant hot food and water, it's fantastic.

We have down coats, hats, gloves, scarves, big Timberland boots to keep our feet warm and dry.

If at any point you get too hot, you can take off your jumper, or turn down the heat, or boot up the air conditioning.

We can even heat toilet seats! And a hell of a lot more than 62 people can enjoy that today.

----

I wonder what percent of humanity has access to this technology today? How about 10 years ago? 50? Two centuries ago?

The world today is a true horror.



You don't hate the rich. You just want to be rich.



fatslob-:O said:
MTZehvor said:

As it pertains to contests or measuring of equality, yes, it does. For instance, people got upset at the Patriots when they were accused of deflating footballs. Why? Because it (supposedly) put them at an advantage that others teams didn't start off with. People argue that the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision makes campaigning "unfair" for less wealthy candidates because they can't afford to advertise themselves as much, and are at a disadvantage from the get go. That's the issue at stake here, and that's really what fairness is all about. If you've got a different idea of what fair means, then feel free to throw it out there.

I agree that having better or worse circumstances is a part of life, but that doesn't make the concept of fairness any less valid. It just means that life isn't fair, which, coincidentially, is a commonly enough heard phrase that I think it drives the point home.

My idea of "fair" is pertaining to adhering standards or rules ... 

Life is one shitty game that involves some luck whether you like it or not ... 

You can only argue about fairness on the grounds of misconduct for a very small set of variables ... 

Nothing is ever equal in life but that doesn't mean it's not fair. The rules for it makes sense to great degree ...

Then you're simply setting the bar for what to evaluate fairness at a certain level. Once a certain set of rules or guidelines, along with some background details, are established, anything that gives one side an unfair advantage is unfair. I'm simply taking the same concept of fairness, and using it to evaluate the background of the situations as well.

To put it another way, imagine I fought Mike Tyson in a boxing match. So long as neither of us cheated by taking steroids or something, it would be a "fair" competition. Yet, people would say "that's not even a fair fight." Why? Because I'm obviously starting off at a disadvantage (namely barely having boxed at all in my life and being nowhere near as strong). The competition is only "fair" if you disregard the background knowledge to the situation, which is what fair means in regards to rules. If you apply the same standards to everything, however, including background information, it becomes far more difficult to make the case for it being fair.

Also, just as a heads up, you can end your sentences with more than just ellipses. =p