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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy 15 has two types of Magic, Director on role of women in the game

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Would you like to have female characters playable in Final Fantasy XV?

Yes 54 79.41%
 
No 10 14.71%
 
Total:64
The Fury said:
Aeolus451 said:

Well, Fran can walk in front of me all day....opps I meant get in my way all she wants. 

Both of those could be interpreted the same way...



 


I guess.... haha To me, there's a difference.



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VXIII said:
sc94597 said:

I am not a (modern) feminist, nor a woman. I find the lack of female playable characters annoying - not on grounds that it is sexist - but because it impedes my ability to role-play. I like to experience different perspectives and create my characters abilities around said perspectives in my JRPG's and removing a whole gender from the equation just makes it bland. It would be less annoying if it was for a more interesting reason than a "road-trip" theme. I think the "road-trip" idea is unappealing as well. I was hoping it would comprise only a small segment of the game (20-30% at most) but unfortunately it seems as if it will last for most of it.

Cold war > war > losing homeland > staying on the road because there is no place to return to > whatever comes next. 

Reducing that series of events to "dudes on a road trip" is taking things out of context and making uneducated guess based on it. The journey is meant to be full of emotions and meaningful events.

Anyways, all male party is a new take in the Jrpgs scene. People demanding female characters for the sake of "diversity" are really demanding the game to be more of the same when it comes to the characters.To be exactly like previous FFs and the majority of Jrpgs out there. They are really asking for less diversity on the bigger picture if you think about it. Style over substance.

All of that could've been done without eliminating playable female characters. The reason for, as noted in the OP, the exclusion of female characters was to implement the guys on a road trip/journey trope that is found in a lot of fiction. That isn't new nor diverse. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RoadTripPlot?from=Main.RoadMovie

In my opinion the "Walking the Earth" trope that previous Final Fantasy games implemented is superior to the Road Trip trope because the world is more fleshed out, and there is no pressure to limit the type of characters you have purely for some cliche'd theme about the other gender. 

Considering the game is suppose to be part of the rpg genre, I think freedom of role-playing trumps top-down presentation. If he wanted to make an action-adventure, that is an entire different thing. People have different expectations from different genres. 

 





method114 said:
pokoko said:

I like how some people are attacking those who have a different opinion about what they prefer with Final Fantasy games.  Most of it is just contrived rationalizations, too.

"I like more diversity with the cast and a larger pool of party members."
"No!  How dare you?  You're wrong to want that!"

What in the name of all things furry and soft gives you the right to decide what I like in a videogame?  Climb down off your high horse.

The cast for this game leaves me uninterested.  Why that hurts of the feelings of anyone to the point that they feel the need to lash out, I don't understand.

You're keen on these guys?  Good for you.

 

To me I don't ever care about the cast of characters in a game just by looks. It's juding a book by it's cover which has always been dumb IMO. I want devs to make games the way they feel they should and I dont' want anyone interrupting or changing their visions for their game. They're the artist and should be the ones in full control of how it's made. Imagine if Da Vinci had a group of board memebers telling him how to paint his paitnings so that more people will like it? All I care about is that when I play the game I enjoy it. If I enjoy it with a cast of all men/women/a mix of both then great really doesn't matter to me either way.



The difference was that Da Vinci was ' selling ' his work to a single client, not millions of people. You are naive if you believe the production of video games are not primarily about money. That doesn't preclude them from being artistic too, but the main purpose is to make money. That is why SE booted Nomura from this game and exchanged him for Tabata, despite Nomura having an artistic vision with respect to it. 



Ugh. To everyone that quoted me:

I don't care if 10-2 was a sequel. It still bore the name Final Fantasy & it was arguably more in line with series tropes than 10 (with ATB and a job system). 10-2 was big news when it came out, partially BECAUSE it was a sequel.

I also don't care what people thought of the game. Some hated it, enough liked it to warrant including it in the HD collections.

My point is, Square reps didn't have to waste time fielding questions about the role of the male characters in nearly every interview concerning FF10-2. Game journalists & the culture at large these days arw more interested in fishing for drama and intrigue than getting new info about the game itself.



pokoko said:
method114 said:

To me I don't ever care about the cast of characters in a game just by looks. It's juding a book by it's cover which has always been dumb IMO. I want devs to make games the way they feel they should and I dont' want anyone interrupting or changing their visions for their game. They're the artist and should be the ones in full control of how it's made. Imagine if Da Vinci had a group of board memebers telling him how to paint his paitnings so that more people will like it? All I care about is that when I play the game I enjoy it. If I enjoy it with a cast of all men/women/a mix of both then great really doesn't matter to me either way.



Good for you.  It's awesome that you don't care about the cast and that you've never looked at the characters in a game and decided that they do or do not interest you.  That's amazing.  I don't actually believe you, of course, about not judging books by their covers, as everyone has done that when deciding what media to buy, but that's neither here nor there.

The point is, characters are important to me.  You don't have to like that.  Honestly, I don't even know why you care.

Also, where did I say anything about changing the game?  Developers have a right to make the game they want and I have the right to be interested or not interested.  Don't you think?



Wow you are crazy defensive and I have no idea why. If you didn't know this is a gaming forum where people discuss various things related to games. Me quoting you doesn't mean I "care" it means I wanted to discuss the topic with you. If I knew you were going to react like a child about it I would have never done it. I guess your right that naturally I immediately do form some sort of opinion about soemthing just by looks. I guess what I should have said is that I don't let those quick opinions I get affect me in my buying deciosions or whether or not I enjoy a game. I wait until I actually try it and for a few hours at least before I start really forming an opinion I'm comftorable discussing.I never said you wanted them to change the game that just you being crazy paranoid/defensive. I was simply stating that we should let the devs create the games the way they want and we can try them out and then decide if we like what they did or not. Never said you didn't have right not to be interested but I'm sure your paranoia led your thought process in that direction. Welcome to the internet my friend I'd recommmend letting down your defeneses a bit you might enjoy yourself online a bit more.





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sc94597 said:
method114 said:
pokoko said:

I like how some people are attacking those who have a different opinion about what they prefer with Final Fantasy games.  Most of it is just contrived rationalizations, too.

"I like more diversity with the cast and a larger pool of party members."
"No!  How dare you?  You're wrong to want that!"

What in the name of all things furry and soft gives you the right to decide what I like in a videogame?  Climb down off your high horse.

The cast for this game leaves me uninterested.  Why that hurts of the feelings of anyone to the point that they feel the need to lash out, I don't understand.

You're keen on these guys?  Good for you.

 

To me I don't ever care about the cast of characters in a game just by looks. It's juding a book by it's cover which has always been dumb IMO. I want devs to make games the way they feel they should and I dont' want anyone interrupting or changing their visions for their game. They're the artist and should be the ones in full control of how it's made. Imagine if Da Vinci had a group of board memebers telling him how to paint his paitnings so that more people will like it? All I care about is that when I play the game I enjoy it. If I enjoy it with a cast of all men/women/a mix of both then great really doesn't matter to me either way.



The difference was that Da Vinci was ' selling ' his work to a single client, not millions of people. You are naive if you believe the production of video games are not primarily about money. That doesn't preclude them from being artistic too, but the main purpose is to make money. That is why SE booted Nomura from this game and exchanged him for Tabata, despite Nomura having an artistic vision with respect to it. 

This was not always the case with Da Vinici sometimes he just did it for the love of his art. I never said anything about video games not being about money of course for the most part that's what it's about. That has nothing to do with me thinking that the devs are the artist and should do with their game what they want. I've heard countless stories in the movie/tv industry of execs who have no talent ruining good movies/shows because they try to do what they "think" people will like instead of letting the artist do what they originally wanted.



sc94597 said:
VXIII said:
sc94597 said:

Cold war > war > losing homeland > staying on the road because there is no place to return to > whatever comes next. 

Reducing that series of events to "dudes on a road trip" is taking things out of context and making uneducated guess based on it. The journey is meant to be full of emotions and meaningful events.

Anyways, all male party is a new take in the Jrpgs scene. People demanding female characters for the sake of "diversity" are really demanding the game to be more of the same when it comes to the characters.To be exactly like previous FFs and the majority of Jrpgs out there. They are really asking for less diversity on the bigger picture if you think about it. Style over substance.

All of that could've been done without eliminating playable female characters. The reason for, as noted in the OP, the exclusion of female characters was to implement the guys on a road trip/journey trope that is found in a lot of fiction. That isn't new nor diverse. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RoadTripPlot?from=Main.RoadMovie

In my opinion the "Walking the Earth" trope that previous Final Fantasy games implemented is superior to the Road Trip trope because the world is more fleshed out, and there is no pressure to limit the type of characters you have purely for some cliche'd theme about the other gender. 

Considering the game is suppose to be part of the rpg genre, I think freedom of role-playing trumps top-down presentation. If he wanted to make an action-adventure, that is an entire different thing. People have different expectations from different genres. 

 

New theme for the Jrpgs scene I said, the road trip theme itself is indeed known. However, it is not separated from other themes and events of the story that make it meaningful.

Each party has unique dynamics. Different kind relationships can be told through different kind of characters. It is a matter of perspective. What can be explained through comradeship of male characters can not be simulated by having females, and vice versa. It opens unique opportunities. Which is the reason for not having girls. So there is no "pressure to limit" anything. Different perspective. That is how I see it.

--------------------

It is up to personal preferences. Nobody is telling anybody what to like or dislike, there is no attacking either. But I think we all agree that pointing out some design aspect as a flaw based on one's preference is not reasonable, worthy of an argument. Especially when it is continously repeated. So let's not start playing victims here



The magic description makes sense then.. so is why everyone isn't considered a mage, as there is a higher order of magics that not everyone can use



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method114 said:

Wow you are crazy defensive and I have no idea why. If you didn't know this is a gaming forum where people discuss various things related to games. Me quoting you doesn't mean I "care" it means I wanted to discuss the topic with you. If I knew you were going to react like a child about it I would have never done it. I guess your right that naturally I immediately do form some sort of opinion about soemthing just by looks. I guess what I should have said is that I don't let those quick opinions I get affect me in my buying deciosions or whether or not I enjoy a game. I wait until I actually try it and for a few hours at least before I start really forming an opinion I'm comftorable discussing.I never said you wanted them to change the game that just you being crazy paranoid/defensive. I was simply stating that we should let the devs create the games the way they want and we can try them out and then decide if we like what they did or not. Never said you didn't have right not to be interested but I'm sure your paranoia led your thought process in that direction. Welcome to the internet my friend I'd recommmend letting down your defeneses a bit you might enjoy yourself online a bit more.



What the ...

Whoa there, Barn.  Put the bullet back in your pocket before you hurt yourself.  I'm not sure what you're talking about but it sure sounds like you're trying to blow this way out of proportion.  I think you might want to find a mirror before you start talking about crazy reactions.

First of all, don't imply that others are being "dumb" then call someone childish.  Pot, kettle on line one.  You are the only one calling people names.  Read back over the posts and then deny that.  Second, don't try to make sarcasm out to be some kind of internet rage.  I was hardly spamming exclaimation marks.

Seriously, don't do this.  Tactics like this are lame.  They will only make you look fake and/or silly.

If you want to discuss in a civil manner then don't start out with an insult.  I don't even understand how that would be a point of confusion.

As for the rest of what you're saying, I simply do not believe that you buy every game out there to see if you like it or not.  Very few people are both willing and able to do that.  Most of us have to make a decision based on avaliable media--and, yes, that's the proverbial "book cover", which for games is pretty extensive.  People do this all the time.

Personally, I don't care for the character designs.  They look like they're about to go clubbing instead of adventuring.  I don't like that there are only five party members and that you only control one of them.  From what I've seen in videos, the battle system does not appeal to me very much.  I think that's enough for me to form the initial impression that I'm just not very interested in this game at this point in time.



As a man, I don't care if a video game has women--I care if it's fun. I don't care what gender any of the characters are.



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