"Women are better at managing and keeping track of the overall picture"

so how, therefore, could they become subjugated beneath men?

it must either be that what you are claiming here is not really true or that women understood that the position they had in the past was the most beneficial one for them and so they accepted those roles

" Women seem better suited at leading a company or country."

the most successful business and countries were not built by women... so this claim appears to have no basis at all

can you give me some actual real world exampes that validate your claim?

i tend not to trust studies generally because they are often times found to be flawed

I agree with quite a few of those points.

Whats sad though, is that they're only being brought up in retaliation to feminism as oppose to an actual desire to better the social treatment and liberty of men. This is the same issue I see with a lot of people who run around decrying feminism. Instead of building a movement to better mens prospects, they spend most of the their time trying to discredit the female equivalent which in the end, serves no one.

I'm a man but i'm sorry I have to defend women when it pertains to this subject because I feel a lot of the hate women receive from us men in regards to this "feminism" movement is bullshit and unfair.

Every man in here saying "men are the real victims of gender inequality" know they wouldn't trade their male gender to be a woman if they could. I know as a man that the entire world is run by men, we're not oppressed at all.I don't understand how this generation of men have been crying about how we as men are all of a sudden oppressed? 75% of the leaders in the entire world are male. Severely off topic but I mean just check your nearest search engine for any pornography and you'll see the content is geared towards us men. (Facial abuse, Gangbangs, Bukakee) the list goes on and on. A LOT of things are geared towards us men and now that some things are geared towards women the past 20-30 years now we're complaining? LOL

Women historically have been treated like TRASH in the past and that is why they now receive a protected status. It's the same thing with minority groups. Look at wild animals for example, the ones that have been treated like trash and are almost extinct receive a more "Protected" status than the other wild animals. It's unfortunate but that's just how the world works.


The reason why women are able to just be beautiful and still be able to marry to a wealthy family is because wealthy men are STUPID when it comes to women. Look at Donald Sterling, instead of being loyal to his wife he went and chased a piece of hot tail (she was ugly to me) and that chick ruined his life and recorded his personal conversation and got his team taken from him. Jay-Z is smart he married Beyonce a woman who has more money than him so if they are divorced she loses more than he loses. Halle Berry's white ex husband was smart, he married halle a woman who has more money than him and now that they're divorced Halle Berry has to pay child support to him and rightfully so.

The reason why men have joined the military and not women is because of PATRIARCHY ( a system that US men created). We told women to stay home and take care of the children and don't lift a finger and us men are going to fight wars, work, open doors, buy you flowers, pay for everything and protect our families.

We created patriarchy so how can we be mad as men that a system that we created is biting us in the butt? That is why I don't get upset when women want to destroy patriarchy, because the destruction of patriarchy actually works in mens favor they just are too emotionally angry to see it.

The one thing i'll agree is the court systems are rigged in women's favor and hurt men constantly but then again the court system are rigged in white peoples favor and hurt people of color constantly. We need to find a way to make the court system fair all around because it definitely isn't.

True. And the task of raising kids and maintaining a household was much harder too, and people lived much shorter lives. Raising kids used to be a huge part of your life. The indoctrination didn't really start until the industrial revolution. Probably not even intentional, merely to propagate the historically established roles and better prepare both sexes of what was expected out of them in life.

Who knows what history was really like before the industrial revolution. There have been female painters and writers long before that. Working on a farm isn't that hard and there were plenty artisan jobs. Religion had a much stronger grip on society though and was very strict in the roles men and women are supposed to play. In that way indoctrination was pretty real. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/womens_rights.html It still is in certain religions, Sharia law for example.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/14/margaret-thatcher-20-changes-britain

Learn some history if you want to understand how women were subjugated beneath men. It's a combination of reproductive necessity and religion enforcing the roles. Understood that their position was more beneficial to them? lol.

Hehe yeah it's pretty silly. Afraid of change I guess. There is still this notion hanging around of what a real man should be, the sole provider and protector of his kids and wife. We could have a whole other thread about the male identity crisis. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201406/the-male-identity-crisis-and-the-decline-fatherhood Ironically women working more doesn't get fathers more involved in raising the kids, the opposite actually. Now is that because independent women don't want the father around, fathers don't want to be around independent women or without feeling needed it's not worth it to them?

And agreed about the justice system. Justice is only blind to its own prejudice.

It's more men not wanting to deal with "independent" women. As a man I can admit we have been indoctrinated with this patriarchy nonsense where we feel inadequate as men if women tell us "I don't want or need anything from you other than being my boyfriend or husband and working as equals". So a lot of men have been trying to instill patriarchy back by shaming and bashing women who want to destroy patriarchy. The hilarious thing about all of this is men don't realize if patriarchy is destroyed it actually HELPS men more than it helps women. Men will no longer have to always fit the "male patriarical role" of having to be financially stable, tough as nails, have no emotion, be able to support a family all while having 6 pack abs and looking like Channing Tatum or Odell Beckham to be valued. LOL

I'm a man but I strongly support femism because I see its benefits in not ony helping women become independent but it also allows men to actually be human beings instead of having to be Bruce Wayne in real life just to be valued in the patriarical system. Feminsm has been wrongfully bashed by us men relentlessly on the internet and it's extremely unfair.

i'm just trying to show you that what you are saying does not hold together logically

you are claiming that women are better managers and that is fine i have no problem with that but my question is that if they are better managers or in other words leaders (because that is essentially what a manager is anyway)

how did they therefore end up as the ones being lead? i've asked this for about 3 times now and you have not given me an answer yet

"Understood that their position was more beneficial to them? lol."

this is the only thing that makes sense with regards to what you are telling me 

"religion enforcing the roles."

religion is a societal management system that came from men btw

"I feel a lot of the hate women receive from us men in regards to this "feminism" movement is bullshit and unfair."

most of the "hate" or better worded criticism i see is directed towards stupid ideas like equality of outcomes not towards women as a group... sure there are men who because of interactions with women become jaded as a result and start hating women ... sure that exists but that has existed for eons and it exists on the female side as well

"Every man in here saying "men are the real victims of gender inequality""

yes i agree that any man who says this is delusional... what i would say is the genders are and will always be unequal and as a result experience certain advantages and disadvantages

" just check your nearest search engine for any pornography and you'll see the content is geared towards us men"

for obvious reasons - products are always tailored towards whichever group consumes the product most

" if patriarchy is destroyed it actually HELPS men more than it helps women. Men will no longer have to always fit the "male patriarical role""

the ideals that men try to live up to - tall, muscular, wealthy etc have nothing to do with this great boogieman "patriarchy" that you speak of

men try to live up to these ideals because they understand from an early age just as women do what the other gender finds attractive... you really believe that if society changes that women will stop prefering men with certain traits over others?

as a man you will always be expected to fit a particular standard if you want a mate... that is not going to change... sure men that do not fit these traits find mates obvious but the point is that these traits are understood to be most desirable

"We created patriarchy so how can we be mad as men that a system that we created is biting us in the butt? "

? i don't ever remember drawing up plans for something called patriarchy? when was the last meeting where we discussed this?

"Women historically have been treated like TRASH"

and this is an interesting claim right here because i could just as easily claim based on hardships that were faced primarily by men, that men were also treated like trash in the past

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are asking?

Yes religion was mostly deminated by men and opressed women. The first female priests were not ordained until the seventies in the US, 1994 in the church of England. Witch hunts were documented from before the 1300's to the early 1900's, predominently targeted at women that were out of line.

Maybe you want to know how religion came to be dominated by males? I don't have that answer, I can only speculate.
Women were mostly tied to the cave with short lives taxed by trying to raise kids. While men were out hunting and dealing with neigbouring tribes. Tribal warfare might have been a driving factor in the us against them part during the origin of religion.

Anyway whatever it was in the ancient past that led to the status quo hasn't been relevant for a long time. It's kinda obvious that tribes where the women stayed at home and raised many kids did better than tribes that did not. Blame natural selection.