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Forums - Gaming - "We will make you buy your favorite PS2 games that you already own" - Sony

Viktor on 06 December 2015
jake_the_fake1 said:
Viktor said:
Oh, there was another company beeing greedy as well? MS no less? Then everything is fine, I guess. Since it doesn´t seem to have crossed your mind, they could have easily chosen not to hide basic online gaming behind a paywall. They could have continued their PSN subscription model as it was in the beginning if they wanted to.

But guess what, every non apologist predicted that the PSN model as it was in the beginning was just a trojan horse and that it would develop into Sonys own Xbox Live. Since they were far behind, they knew they needed more incentives in the beginning, that´s all.


For some perspective;

- Microsoft making bank on all it's software products, releases the original xbox and bleeds money like a mofo but the whole company keeps making bank like if nothing happened, the xbox struggled to sell when it was being overshadowed by the PS2 so instead of releasing live for free they start charging for live, the paid service continues into the 360 were it picks ups steam and continues into the xboxone despite poor hardware sales live and the live market remain very strong.

-Sony as a company struggling to keep afloat, bleeds money on the PS3 but keeps the PS3 online free as a value add to to entice people but it did shit all, even when the PS3 had a competitive price and tons of great games, free online did shit to get people on board, instead people mocked it for being inferior. Sony start it's PS+ service again as a value add, this time around people are receptive to it, so the service continues to the Vita and PS4, the service does so well that even Microsoft and EA copied that model. Sony then moves online behind the subscription for the PS4 reveal and no major fuss came out of it.

Moral of the story, the market forces have spoken, they are ok with paying for online and have been OK since the  inception of xbox live. Sales prove this, no matter if the company behind the console is financially struggling or making crazy money.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks that this is a thing, if it wasn't for the fact that I found value in PS+ I would be super annoyed so I sympathize with you and those people, but lets be honest your in the minority here, luckily there are still options like the WiiU, PS3, and of course the PC. As for the Nintendo NX, all this talk about the cloud, welp seems to me like they are going for the value add position in order to charge for it, and why not, the market at large is ok with, it's competition are doing it, so it's only logical that they do it as well....it sucks I know but unfortunately it's just the way things are going....the only thing you can do is vote with your wallet, and that's easer said than done.


First of all people not paying for basic online gaming is the majority, be it on PC, Wii, PS3, DS, PSV and 3DS, even the latter alone has still a bigger userbase than PS4 and Xone combined. Second I´m not interested in excuses for beeing ripped off and I act accordingly, there are more than enough alternatives to play 3rd party games without having to pay a silly entry tax, on the other hand you can do with your money as you please and I have no problem with it. This scheme is a very profitable one but luckily enough I don´t feel obligated to make mega-corporations even richer for a service that I can easily get for free.

About emulation, since they had to develop one regardless since they want to sell them digitally, it wouldn´t have killed them to offer the possibility to play your already bought physical games with a firmware update. The logical reason not to is obviously they don´t owe us anything and this way they can make more money, since anyone one who wants to play their PS2 games on PS4 needs to rebuy them. Which makes the "but Sony is in need" crowd, who are more than willingly excusing their decisions and paying them for nowadays basic services such as basic online gaming with the mindset of supporting them (like a friend) even more funny, since Sony themselves don´t have any considerations for anything  and anyone that doesn´t have great profit margins.

The very reason why they abandoned PSV shortly after release and most of the 1st parties didn´t even bother at all to begin with, was that console gaming was deemed more profitable. But here we are, some excusing any move by them, and paying in part of just supporting them rather than to their own benefit as consumers.



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bananaking21 on 06 December 2015
Puppyroach said:
bananaking21 said:
"i already own a game, yet im bitching about to have to repurchase it on another platform. even though i own it and can play it"


sheesh. if you own then, then just fucking play it and stop bitching.

Or one could make the argument that if fans have bought their games once and actually helped Sony reach success, they shouldn't have to fork out cash once more just because they are dedicated to the brand. You can argue either way, it all depends on where you're coming from.

you dont. you can still play it.

 

would it be cool if i could play the PS2 games i owned on PS4? yes. do i have the right to demand it? no.

 

if you dont want to pay, you dont have to and can still play the game. 



mornelithe on 06 December 2015

Sony's making you do what, exactly? So they have a gun to your head and unless you buy these games, they're going to kill you? Man, fuck Sony...that's messed up.

Btw, putting your subject in quotes like that, and implying it's a direct quote from Sony is pretty disingenuous, you may have a career in Gaming Journalism on your hands.



SuperNova on 06 December 2015

I can understand no support for disc-based backwards compartibility, as amazing and consumer friendly as that would have been, with getting the little enhancements the emulated games offer to boot. What I cannot understand is having to repay for a digital purchase made on the ps3. Those should carry over. They should be unified.
It wasn't cool that Nintendo made you repay for virtual console games (albeit at a dicounted price) on the WiiU (I hope they don't drop the ball like that on their next system) and this isn't either.



Puppyroach on 06 December 2015
bananaking21 said:
Puppyroach said:
 

Or one could make the argument that if fans have bought their games once and actually helped Sony reach success, they shouldn't have to fork out cash once more just because they are dedicated to the brand. You can argue either way, it all depends on where you're coming from.

you dont. you can still play it.

 

would it be cool if i could play the PS2 games i owned on PS4? yes. do i have the right to demand it? no.

 

if you dont want to pay, you dont have to and can still play the game. 

Who is demanding to have it? Some people say its cheap by Sony not to do it and think they should offer games for free or cheaper than they are. That's consumer opinion, just like you as a consumers doesn't think they should. You argue like fans shouldn't even complain. Of course they should complain if they don't agree with the decisions of their favorite game company, that's how MS reversed some of their policies even before they released the X1. Consumers speaking up even before something is a reality.



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Mr_No on 06 December 2015
bananaking21 said:
"i already own a game, yet im bitching about to have to repurchase it on another platform. even though i own it and can play it"


sheesh. if you own then, then just fucking play it and stop bitching.

What about those, like me, who have a considerable library of PS2 games but their PS2 doesn't work? Do I need to buy another PS2?



Viktor on 06 December 2015
SuperNova said:

I can understand no support for disc-based backwards compartibility, as amazing and consumer friendly as that would have been, with getting the little enhancements the emulated games offer to boot. What I cannot understand is having to repay for a digital purchase made on the ps3. Those should carry over. They should be unified.
It wasn't cool that Nintendo made you repay for virtual console games (albeit at a dicounted price) on the WiiU (I hope they don't drop the ball like that on their next system) and this isn't either.


You could still play and re-download any WiiWare and VirtualConsole game bought on Wii on WiiU without paying a cent. If you wanted new WiiU features it was a different thing.



mornelithe on 06 December 2015
Mr_No said:
bananaking21 said:
"i already own a game, yet im bitching about to have to repurchase it on another platform. even though i own it and can play it"


sheesh. if you own then, then just fucking play it and stop bitching.

What about those, like me, who have a considerable library of PS2 games but their PS2 doesn't work? Do I need to buy another PS2?

Yes, there are plenty of people out there who have considerable libraries of X, that at some point in time become useless due to a hardware failure.  Usually what those people do is replace said piece of hardware in order to continue enjoying said library.  After the PS3 gen, people gamer's (other than myself, I bought a launch 60g) made it clear that BC wasn't a priority.  If it'd been that important, more people should've gotten the launch PS3, and maybe Sony would've put some effort into ensuring BC.  That didn't happen, so Sony's clearly not going to risk profit by adding something into their hardware architecture that increases costs, that nobody (or few people) cares about. 

With PS Now, they can at least leverage their libraries to individuals who may not be interested in having a gaming console, but are interested from time to time, with playing games.  PS Now was never for people who own hardware, it was always going to be for everyone else.



Mr_No on 06 December 2015
mornelithe said:
Mr_No said:

What about those, like me, who have a considerable library of PS2 games but their PS2 doesn't work? Do I need to buy another PS2?

Yes, there are plenty of people out there who have considerable libraries of X, that at some point in time become useless due to a hardware failure.  Usually what those people do is replace said piece of hardware in order to continue enjoying said library.  After the PS3 gen, people gamer's (other than myself, I bought a launch 60g) made it clear that BC wasn't a priority.  If it'd been that important, more people should've gotten the launch PS3, and maybe Sony would've put some effort into ensuring BC.  That didn't happen, so Sony's clearly not going to risk profit by adding something into their hardware architecture that increases costs, that nobody (or few people) cares about. 

With PS Now, they can at least leverage their libraries to individuals who may not be interested in having a gaming console, but are interested from time to time, with playing games.  PS Now was never for people who own hardware, it was always going to be for everyone else.

I'm not asking for every PS2 games for free. I'm just saying why isn't disc-based emulation is not an alternative? I mean, I own a copy of the game. I'm not even complaining about PS Now, which could've been a better alternative than a PS2 Classic at a $15 pricepoint. I doubt it'll happen, but I'm hopeful they might consider it in the future.



mornelithe on 06 December 2015
Mr_No said:
mornelithe said:

Yes, there are plenty of people out there who have considerable libraries of X, that at some point in time become useless due to a hardware failure.  Usually what those people do is replace said piece of hardware in order to continue enjoying said library.  After the PS3 gen, people gamer's (other than myself, I bought a launch 60g) made it clear that BC wasn't a priority.  If it'd been that important, more people should've gotten the launch PS3, and maybe Sony would've put some effort into ensuring BC.  That didn't happen, so Sony's clearly not going to risk profit by adding something into their hardware architecture that increases costs, that nobody (or few people) cares about. 

With PS Now, they can at least leverage their libraries to individuals who may not be interested in having a gaming console, but are interested from time to time, with playing games.  PS Now was never for people who own hardware, it was always going to be for everyone else.

I'm not asking for every PS2 games for free. I'm just saying why isn't disc-based emulation is not an alternative? I mean, I own a copy of the game. I'm not even complaining about PS Now, which could've been a better alternative than a PS2 Classic at a $15 pricepoint. I doubt it'll happen, but I'm hopeful they might consider it in the future.

Very likely for the same reason that BC on PS3 was so costly, it required putting a PS2 on the circuit board.   But that's a guess, I've no technical idea about it.  Would probably need someone like Tachikoma to explain.