CaptainExplosion said: I wonder what the specs would be if it did release at $300 on launch, and if it launched in 2016 or 2017. |
We can expect that rspec are somewhere around Xbox One/PS4.
Do you think Patcher is right? | |||
Yes, other price would be a wrong move. | 94 | 28.75% | |
No, it will be more expensive. | 79 | 24.16% | |
No, it will be cheaper. | 30 | 9.17% | |
No, because Patcher said it. | 100 | 30.58% | |
Is this a NX thread? The ... | 24 | 7.34% | |
Total: | 327 |
CaptainExplosion said: I wonder what the specs would be if it did release at $300 on launch, and if it launched in 2016 or 2017. |
We can expect that rspec are somewhere around Xbox One/PS4.
spemanig said:
Nintendo does anti-consumer shit all the time. Like I said, Amiibo is exponentially worse than this is, and Amiibo are being put into more games every day. The entire way Nintendo handled Smash's DLC is anti consumer. Nintendo are no saints. This, by comparison, is absolutely nothing. They will be different versions, just based of the same baseline game. They will just be extremely similar, from a skeliton POV. They can't be exactly the same simply based on obvious things like screen real-estate, game sizes, optimizations, etc. The HUD in some games, for example, must be different on the NXDS than it will be on the NX because of the nature of a smaller screen. That can't be done with 100% identical versions. Then comes the fact that more work will need to be done than a simple scaling up or down. The hardware is set, meaning there will need to be optimizations done to get the best out of the power given. They'd also need to do some serious compression for all of the NXDS versions of the game files, because a handheld simply does not have the capacity to hold that many console-sized games, space wise. All a unified platform does is make it fast, easy, and cheap for the developer to do all this. Adding exclusive content to either platform merely requires telling the game what platform what content can appear on, the same way it will already do it for the versions of a game itself. That's why people thinking this will be a physical platform are legitimately nuts to me: especially carts. This kind of stuff isn't happening with cartriges. You aren't going to buy a cart, have it work onboth, and see the same kinds of differences you expect between a console and a handheld when you swap that one cart between the two. |
I don't think the amiibo are all that bad. In some cases, it is, but most of the time, it is minor extras that people won't miss, and people mostly want the figurines as collectibles and just decoration, at least for me. I have never bought an amiibo just for the extras they unlock. The best case scenario would be they just released amiibo w/out anything attatched, but I see there is some creative idea around the amiibo concept, but just hasn't really be done yet. The best examples are Smash Bros and Ultra Smash Tennis.
I suppose they can make it so that the game will recognize which console the game is being played on, but I don't quite see them going to that extremes with the NX. I think the only reason the HWL is having this weird content exchange thing is that HWL is releasing so late and it needs something to make it worth while. I don't really see games releasing on different dates for specific consoles since it would be playable on both from the start.
I also heard flash memory being thrown around as a possible thing to use to hold games in, besides the NX being digital only. Though I really don't know that much about the current info on NX...
Also, how is Smash bros DLC anti consumer? It seems like standard dlc, just over priced.
Dance my pretties!
The Official Art Thread - The Official Manga Thread - The Official Starbound Thread
The important thing is to ensure that they will have the convenience to cut its price as much as they want/it's needed....
I could say more about that, but I don't want to expatiate! ;P
CaptainExplosion said: I wonder what the specs would be if it did release at $300 on launch, and if it launched in 2016 or 2017. |
Try to reconcile this point:
Many gamers on this site and elsewhere online would call the NX a failure if it barely matches XB1/PS4 level of hardware considering it'll be 3 years by the time the NX launches since the launch of current gen consoles. At the same time, most people aren't willing to pay much more than $299 for the NX and think $299 or below should be NX's price. Chances are MS/Sony will have a lot higher bargaining power with all component suppliers compared to Nintendo's brand new console, and it'll be much easier for MS/Sony to justify $299 PS4/XB1 in 2016 due to making up profits in software sales (i.e., huge userbase by then) and extra $$ from online services.
Question: how is Nintendo going to sell a $299 console that will satisfy the expressed needs of most gamers (innovation and/or good hardware) without taking big hardware losses?
Something doesn't align with the pricing predictions vs. the expectations of gamers regarding NX's innovative features/hardware. You cannot expect a truly innovative and a decently more powerful console than PS4 in 2016 all for just $299. There could be other factors of course such as MS/Sony making $$$ off hardware and the $299 price for them in 2016 could be far more profitable than Nintendo pricing the NX at $299 and making $0. Still though, at $299, it doesn't leave Ninendo with a lot of headroom to introduce much more powerful hardware. Nintendo has also expressed that the NX will be completely differnet to the current gaming concepts but how do you do that with only a $299 price? Such a low price makes it way too difficult to incorporate VR or any type of innovating control mechanics. Chances are when they discussed innovation they were discussing software, not hardware. The NX home console hardware is probably going to be basic with a traditional hardware to keep costs low. More likely than not it won't be anything exotic other than either an ARM CPU cores + GCN graphics or even simpler an X86 APU desing similar to XB1/PS4.
Why would Nintendo want hardware somewhat more powerful than PS4? Since they are launching mid-cycle, their NX console will not only be competing with XB1/PS4 but also with XB2/PS5 which are bound to launch by 2020 at the latest (some rumors have it for 2018 or 2019).
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The biggest risk here is EVEN IF the NX is $299, it's launching at the wrong time - no man's land. It's going to lose the popularity vote as most gamer's friends will have already purchased XB1/PS4, implying that some new gamer is more likely to buy a console their friends/family alreayd owns to play similar games online and share games. At the same time the NX is going to be crushed in performance by next gen PS5/XB2 consoles in 2019 or 2020 at the latest.
Nintendo's biggest issue is strategy. Even a $299 price and hardware beating PS4 by 50% may not even be enough since literally everything is against the NX.
The idea that you can play cross-platform titles on the NX and NX handheld creates a synergy might fly for some gamers but not many. Why? I sure as hell have 0 interest in playing PS Vita games on PS4 or PS4 games on the Vita. Sony failed miserably with this approach. This is because the types of games that work very well on handhelds (DS/3DS) are FAR simpler games - they are easy to pick up with a small learning curve. While a lot of home console games are way more complex and would allienate MANY handheld owners.
Mystro-Sama said: Whats this guy's qualifications anyways? lol |
He is just Patcher after all ...
Mystro-Sama said: Whats this guy's qualifications anyways? lol |
From what I've briefly seen, Pachter's comments regarding Nintendo are almost always negative, going way back to the Wii. Honestly if the NX was $199 he'd say it's too cheap and sends the perception of being a toy/kiddie console. If the NX was $299 and had $600 worth of hardware he'd say it has no 3rd party support and that Nintendo is stupid for losing billions on hardware. If the NX is $349-399 and has hit it out of the park in all areas, he'd say it's too expensive. If the NX meets all key criteria, he'll say something stupid like Nintendo caught a fluke with casuals again. I am basically convinced Pachter doesn't like Nintendo's consoles and never really did. I mean the Wii U's 3rd party support is abysmal, its hardware is abysmal but the console is stacked with a lot of solid 1st party games - a HECK of a lot better than PS4's line-up of exclusives. I don't even own the Wii U but Pachter just goes where the ad-revenue and research reports / investors are. Right now MS/Sony are popular and it makes sense he hypes up successful products since he is in the business to sell. That's what an equity research firm does -- sells research reports to investors for $$$. Therefore, Pachter himself doesn't need to love videogames at all -- he just needs to know all the current trends and make predictions that make $ for his corporate investors. Since he hasn't seen anything on the NX, it makes sense that he remains conservative instead of hyping the console since he doesn't want to sell wrong advice for investment purposes.
Here though, we are consumers/gamers, most of us are not investors. Therefore, his crazy theories about how the NX should cost $299 or else it's a fail are far removed from what gamers want. PS4 didn't have any issues moving consoles at $399 and if you are a PC gamer like me, the PS4 to this date has almost nothing worth playing, and yet sold almost 30M copies. What matters is not the price but the value or at least the perception of value you deliver. It's the same reason iPhone sells for $650 but has only $210-260 worth of components in it. You can have a 2016 NX console flying off the shelves if it cost $349-399 and at the same time you can have a console that costs $199-299 fail miserably. Pachter doesn't get this point because he isn't a true gamer at heart -- he just looks at price without taking into account value or the perception of value.
Cloudman said: I don't think the amiibo are all that bad. In some cases, it is, but most of the time, it is minor extras that people won't miss, and people mostly want the figurines as collectibles and just decoration, at least for me. I have never bought an amiibo just for the extras they unlock. The best case scenario would be they just released amiibo w/out anything attatched, but I see there is some creative idea around the amiibo concept, but just hasn't really be done yet. The best examples are Smash Bros and Ultra Smash Tennis. I suppose they can make it so that the game will recognize which console the game is being played on, but I don't quite see them going to that extremes with the NX. I think the only reason the HWL is having this weird content exchange thing is that HWL is releasing so late and it needs something to make it worth while. I don't really see games releasing on different dates for specific consoles since it would be playable on both from the start. I also heard flash memory being thrown around as a possible thing to use to hold games in, besides the NX being digital only. Though I really don't know that much about the current info on NX... Also, how is Smash bros DLC anti consumer? It seems like standard dlc, just over priced. |
But you don't get to be the judge of whether people will miss it or not. The individual does, and as soon as they do, the true nature of Amiibo becomes clear: a large group of independant, functionless paywalls for digital content. I keep bringing up Mario Kart 8 because its example is the most clear: if I want all the Mii costumes, which would cost anywhere from absolutely nothing to $4 at most as regular DLC, I have to pay over $250 for a functionally useless collection of toys. That is barbarically absurd, but people keep buying them and supporting them, meaning Nintendo has no reason to stop. It doesn't matter why most people want them. It's a major problem for the people who don't want them. That's the point. If all Amiibo worked like they do in Mario Maker, and you could unlock all that content ingame for free, there wouldn't be an issue, but they don't, so there is, and it's far more aggregious than what the NX will do with it's content.
The NX won't work as a functional concept if it doesn't do that. Nintendo specifically referenced iOS and Andriod when describing this. That is exactly how software on these platforms work. They have to go to those extremes, or the NX literally cannot work the way they've been talking about it. I agree that the specific wat HWL was handled has been altered by the release schedule, but only altered. The idea behind it is very indicative of a clear strategy for the NX. The mere existence of that game at all is. Though I do think the way exclusive content will be handled will lean more on the Smash side of things than on the HWL side of things. I see that as a copout that I think a lot of third parties will use as a cheap way to incentivize either version, rather than what Smash did, which requires more work and design foresight.
Flash memory doesn't matter, because the games also need to have a digital option. That means that whatever is stored on the cart has to be also storable on the portable. That's impossible with games as big as console games are guaranteed to be. Even with an abnormally large SD card, you're only going to be able to store like 3-4 games on it, which will never fly with any manufacturer, let alone Nintendo.
It's anti consumer purely because it's overpriced. Criminally so.
If true, 300$ would be way too expensive compared to current PS4 (~350$ with Battlefront currently) and XB1 (~330$ not counting constant deals or free game) prices
People can already buy tablets for ~100$ or less. Not sure they'll want a new tablet, even from Nintendo, costing 300$ (without deals / promotion). If that's the price of the Nintendo NX obviously. We'll see.
Lol some people still think the Nintendo NX will be more powerful (or even having comparable specs) than PS4?