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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bethesda are crap, they need a new engine and team.

 

They should...

...take time to polish an... 72 32.00%
 
...wait for Modders to fi... 20 8.89%
 
...changes their engine, ... 133 59.11%
 
Total:225
Wright on 09 November 2015

shakarak said:

@wright who obviously has not played the Witcher 3 as the continued patches have improved the game substantially.


There have been several updates that contributed to make the game worse. Like infamous 1.07.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-should-you-install-the-witcher-3-patch-107

 

So back to the question: should you install patch 1.07? Even with its negative impacts on frame-rate on PS4 and Xbox One, it's hard to overlook the wealth of positive changes to The Witcher 3. Weapon stats are rebalanced, the inventory systems are streamlined, and bug fixes too numerous to mention bolster the core package. With the new movement system, everything is snappier, with crowded pub areas now much easier to navigate. The switch to 1.07 is recommended overall, but with some reluctance: we were promised improved performance and it's surprising to see that this controversial area of The Witcher 3 actually seems to take a hit with the new update. The wealth of new features is clearly welcome and obviously improves the game, but we really would like to see the console versions' frame-rate and stability problems comprehensively addressed.

 

The best thing is that this author summarizes what I think about the Fallout 4 situation altogether: technical problems shouldn't make you step back from enjoying an awesome experience.



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Wright on 09 November 2015
John2290 said:


Try saying that after attempting to play skyrim on the ps3, lol. It's a horrible experience, the stuff of gaming nightmares. 


I've never defended Skyrim, though.



mountaindewslave on 09 November 2015
John2290 said:

Let me narrow that down a bit. Bethesda''s core team is shit. Dishonored, rage and Wolfenstien: the new order/the old blood are games done right. But their main team, which changes slightly with each big game but there is always the core group at the centre of the team , the ones behind the big releases like Oblivion, skyrim and fallout 3. They fucking suck. 

Even if their games are great they shouldn't get free pass on the horribly, buggy releases time and again. Their engine sucks,  their lead animator sucks, their pacing and traversal in game suck. Their optimization for console's suck. And did I mention  the pacing in their games? Oh, I did. Well it sucks. And mods are not a scape goat for this nonsense, you are setting a horrible example for other publishers who want to make quick money before their fiscal year ends and they have to take it up the assignment from their investors. Don't be the company that contributes to the slow death of the medium. The mods should be complimentary not an easy way out of polishing your game. 

Why not release on PC first, take six months or so with the console versions and pay attention to what the Modders are up to...why not hire the best of them to polish your broken games. 

Its 2015, The wither 3 has done it bigger and better on a smaller budget Dragon age inquisition has done it bigger and better and that's an EA game. Bloodborne and  MGS5 have done it with pricision and fenese. There should be no excuse for any big budget game that releases with frame drop's to the single digits, facial animations that look a decade old and pacing right out of a game from 1999. Weather they are Bethesda or not, they should get a damp avalanche of backlash. 

Why are they given a free pass? Because we expect them to be shit? Fuck that. Not good enough. If you don't have the heart to replace the engine and the people on your staff who are holding things back in 2006 why not hire an extra group of professionals to work with them and name them jnr or assistant whatever the job may be, new blood so to speak who may be able to learn from the old guys but also pass on new techniques to them. And for god sake get a new engine, the other one has served you well but it needs to be put down, let it die in peace and move on. 

 

EDIT. I have played their rpgs since Oblivion, I loved fallout day one and put up with the buggy mess it was on ps3. I got through obsidian's buggy new Vegas,  just barley. I couldn't play my original copy of skyrim on ps3 because of the mess it was, went on 360 for that and have since bought all their recent games on PC and while they are great when HEAVILY modded they have aged horribly without the modding community. I may buy fallout 4 on ps4 if it isn't as bad as skyrim. it is my only option as my PC is struggling with sleeping dogs on low. Need an upgrade. 


you're off on SOME things

a game like Witcher 3 or even the new Metal Gear may be more successful at having FEWER bugs in a bigger world BUT they have wayyyyy wayyyy less content in their worlds

it is beyond difficult to have a massive open world with like a kajillion unique NPC's and quests and choices and have it stable. the reality is no other games besides Bethesda's actually attempt a detailed open world. even a game like Witcher 3, while visually pretty, lacks the same substance in each section of the world. the detail is not there as much

I do think with something like Fallout you have to give them a bit of a break, the company can't just recycle ideas or things from other games or LORE, with Fallout you sort of have to create most everything from scratch. that's a difficult task when you're talking about a game that has no many options and choice

 

it is annoying that the Bethesda games often have performance issues upon release, I agree, in fact I used to play them some on consoles but have since abandoned that for PC due to the issues. that said I do think that arguably its been exaggerated how bad it can be- I had no problem playing Fallout 3 on the PS3 for the most part, nor New Vegas. sure maybe sometimes you have to reload a save or do something weird if something freezes up or a character disappears but I think its not that bad given the scope of the games

 



Darwinianevolution on 09 November 2015
John2290 said:
Darwinianevolution said:

Is this Gif supposed to portray indifference or enjoyment of the situation?

It's open to interpretation :)



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Wright on 09 November 2015
John2290 said:
Wright said:


I've never defended Skyrim, though.

But "stepping back from technical issues" to enjoy the experience was not possible there and not possible or very hard with so many other games. Arkham city on PC for one recent one or that Godzilla game.


Technical issues such as framerrate drops, glitches and stuttering, among the classic pop-in and clipping.

In no way I'm defending freezings, unbeatable games due to bugs messing with the code, crashings, latency problems and so on. That's the definition of a broken game.



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Abun on 09 November 2015
mountaindewslave said:
John2290 said:

Let me narrow that down a bit. Bethesda''s core team is shit. Dishonored, rage and Wolfenstien: the new order/the old blood are games done right. But their main team, which changes slightly with each big game but there is always the core group at the centre of the team , the ones behind the big releases like Oblivion, skyrim and fallout 3. They fucking suck. 

Even if their games are great they shouldn't get free pass on the horribly, buggy releases time and again. Their engine sucks,  their lead animator sucks, their pacing and traversal in game suck. Their optimization for console's suck. And did I mention  the pacing in their games? Oh, I did. Well it sucks. And mods are not a scape goat for this nonsense, you are setting a horrible example for other publishers who want to make quick money before their fiscal year ends and they have to take it up the assignment from their investors. Don't be the company that contributes to the slow death of the medium. The mods should be complimentary not an easy way out of polishing your game. 

Why not release on PC first, take six months or so with the console versions and pay attention to what the Modders are up to...why not hire the best of them to polish your broken games. 

Its 2015, The wither 3 has done it bigger and better on a smaller budget Dragon age inquisition has done it bigger and better and that's an EA game. Bloodborne and  MGS5 have done it with pricision and fenese. There should be no excuse for any big budget game that releases with frame drop's to the single digits, facial animations that look a decade old and pacing right out of a game from 1999. Weather they are Bethesda or not, they should get a damp avalanche of backlash. 

Why are they given a free pass? Because we expect them to be shit? Fuck that. Not good enough. If you don't have the heart to replace the engine and the people on your staff who are holding things back in 2006 why not hire an extra group of professionals to work with them and name them jnr or assistant whatever the job may be, new blood so to speak who may be able to learn from the old guys but also pass on new techniques to them. And for god sake get a new engine, the other one has served you well but it needs to be put down, let it die in peace and move on. 

 

EDIT. I have played their rpgs since Oblivion, I loved fallout day one and put up with the buggy mess it was on ps3. I got through obsidian's buggy new Vegas,  just barley. I couldn't play my original copy of skyrim on ps3 because of the mess it was, went on 360 for that and have since bought all their recent games on PC and while they are great when HEAVILY modded they have aged horribly without the modding community. I may buy fallout 4 on ps4 if it isn't as bad as skyrim. it is my only option as my PC is struggling with sleeping dogs on low. Need an upgrade. 


you're off on SOME things

a game like Witcher 3 or even the new Metal Gear may be more successful at having FEWER bugs in a bigger world BUT they have wayyyyy wayyyy less content in their worlds

it is beyond difficult to have a massive open world with like a kajillion unique NPC's and quests and choices and have it stable. the reality is no other games besides Bethesda's actually attempt a detailed open world. even a game like Witcher 3, while visually pretty, lacks the same substance in each section of the world. the detail is not there as much

I do think with something like Fallout you have to give them a bit of a break, the company can't just recycle ideas or things from other games or LORE, with Fallout you sort of have to create most everything from scratch. that's a difficult task when you're talking about a game that has no many options and choice

 

it is annoying that the Bethesda games often have performance issues upon release, I agree, in fact I used to play them some on consoles but have since abandoned that for PC due to the issues. that said I do think that arguably its been exaggerated how bad it can be- I had no problem playing Fallout 3 on the PS3 for the most part, nor New Vegas. sure maybe sometimes you have to reload a save or do something weird if something freezes up or a character disappears but I think its not that bad given the scope of the games

 

Stop making excuses.Those games have major flaws and both crashed several times on PS3.I guarantee that Horizon will not have these issues so don't mention scope or scale as a reason.



shakarak on 09 November 2015
Wright said:

shakarak said:

@wright who obviously has not played the Witcher 3 as the continued patches have improved the game substantially.


There have been several updates that contributed to make the game worse. Like infamous 1.07.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-should-you-install-the-witcher-3-patch-107

 

So back to the question: should you install patch 1.07? Even with its negative impacts on frame-rate on PS4 and Xbox One, it's hard to overlook the wealth of positive changes to The Witcher 3. Weapon stats are rebalanced, the inventory systems are streamlined, and bug fixes too numerous to mention bolster the core package. With the new movement system, everything is snappier, with crowded pub areas now much easier to navigate. The switch to 1.07 is recommended overall, but with some reluctance: we were promised improved performance and it's surprising to see that this controversial area of The Witcher 3 actually seems to take a hit with the new update. The wealth of new features is clearly welcome and obviously improves the game, but we really would like to see the console versions' frame-rate and stability problems comprehensively addressed.

 

The best thing is that this author summarizes what I think about the Fallout 4 situation altogether: technical problems shouldn't make you step back from enjoying an awesome experience.


You just quoted how the patches make the game worse and certain quests unplayable which I personally did not experience.  But even in that snippet you quoted, the gameplay improvements are numerous and Eurogamer just have issues with the FPS and performance.  Your also picking one patch they degraded performance out of the numerous that they have launched (I think they are on 1.11) now.  As someone who just finally beat the expansion on death march last night and played through the majority of the patches, even without the gameplay improvements Projekt Red have fixed unprecedented amounts of bugs too and my experience was nearly flawless through the end of the game.  



mountaindewslave on 09 November 2015
golfgt170 said:
shakarak said:
While the Witcher 3 is my favorite game this generation and Skyrim is one of my favorite from last gen I do think Bethesda needs to fix these glitchy mess. However, I do understand the Fallout and Skyrim games open worlds are grander in scope as far as being dynamic and interactive then the Witcher which requires a lot more behind the scenes. Also lol at @wright who obviously has not played the Witcher 3 as the continued patches have improved the game substantially.

Even Day 1 witcher was substantially way better in graphics performance than fallout. And from what i've seen  in photos/videos, fallout can't match witcher's graphics


the newer Witcher installment IS graphically impressive but we have to recognize that its not a world that's nearly as filled up as Fallout 4. there is a lotttt of space with just trees and nature in the Witcher. that's kind of a good thing in the sense of it lends itself to a bit of realism in terms of the real world, but also it makes it easier to graphically maintain higher quality because things are spread out a bit more

in a game like Fallout 4 you can walk for a minute and come across a boat load of quests in the middle of nowhere. there are locations filled to the brim with interactable NPCs and activities. it's just a bit more of a fleshed world and because of that I feel as if it makes the possibility of bugs more likely. sure, it sucks, but I think its more than a fair trade off

 

bear in mind again that no other publishers really try what Bethesda does. even a game like Witcher 3 is very different than Fallout. and the comparisons I see of people saying like "Dragon Age Inquisition does it so much better!" are just nonsense,  a game like Dragon Age does not have the detail or variation anywhere near to the level of the Fallout world (that and Dragon Age Inquistion was cut off into different segments on a larger map and was not at all a genuine open world game)



mountaindewslave on 09 November 2015
Abun said:
mountaindewslave said:


you're off on SOME things

a game like Witcher 3 or even the new Metal Gear may be more successful at having FEWER bugs in a bigger world BUT they have wayyyyy wayyyy less content in their worlds

it is beyond difficult to have a massive open world with like a kajillion unique NPC's and quests and choices and have it stable. the reality is no other games besides Bethesda's actually attempt a detailed open world. even a game like Witcher 3, while visually pretty, lacks the same substance in each section of the world. the detail is not there as much

I do think with something like Fallout you have to give them a bit of a break, the company can't just recycle ideas or things from other games or LORE, with Fallout you sort of have to create most everything from scratch. that's a difficult task when you're talking about a game that has no many options and choice

 

it is annoying that the Bethesda games often have performance issues upon release, I agree, in fact I used to play them some on consoles but have since abandoned that for PC due to the issues. that said I do think that arguably its been exaggerated how bad it can be- I had no problem playing Fallout 3 on the PS3 for the most part, nor New Vegas. sure maybe sometimes you have to reload a save or do something weird if something freezes up or a character disappears but I think its not that bad given the scope of the games

 

Stop making excuses.Those games have major flaws and both crashed several times on PS3.I guarantee that Horizon will not have these issues so don't mention scope or scale as a reason.

you 'gurantee'? based on what?

you can't make assumptions as an argument regarding unreleases games

there is no denying that in terms of content Bethesda games are unmatched. there are virtually no comparables of games with as many quests and activities in them as the Bethesda games (or specifically Fallout 4)

the only genuine good argument that bugs existing in Bethesda's games are such a terrible thing would be to bring up similar games that exist without them, but the reality is virtually no developers attempt what Bethesda does because it is extremely difficult to create a large open world with full reign of freedom of choice, quests, activities

if the ambition in Bethesda games wasn't as high I would agree with all of the people bitching, but the reality is their games do offer MORE than any others, regardless of bugs



Mummelmann on 09 November 2015

Bethesda are far from crap, but they are taking quite a few shortcuts and their games are kind of heavy on technical issues. They're still a great developer but I liked their older games better; as their open world games have grown in scope, the average square mile has become gradually less interesting and Morrowind is still among my favorite Bethesda titles.

All that said; I found The Witcher 3 to be superior to both New Vegas, Skyrim and GTA V, and by some measure. The whining about combat and controls mostly came from cookie cutter gamers who were more used to and happy with easy RPG's (like New Vegas and Skyrim, which I also enjoyed hugely myself, mind you).

Bethesda have gotten quite big and are an important influence in the industry today, this is not always good for us gamers, as Capcom, EA, Ubisoft, Activision and Square Enix should be enough proof of.

I'm still gonna buy Fallout 4, I really liked New Vegas and I'm digging the visual style of F4. Getting it for PC, of course. And if my rig can't run it properly; it's most assuredly the game's fault...