By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - SEGA: 'Future Sonic games to be inspired by classic Sonic'

Nem said:

You are confusing game structure with the gameplay itself.

Yes, the structure has been changed on every game since the original trilogy (i wouldnt say Sonic CD though. That is pretty much the same with the added time travel mechanic wich just adds more levels of the same).

The gameplay itself is the way in wich you control Sonic and he moves around. 2D Sonic was already optimised by Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 just perfected it even more. Sonic adventure 2 was a perfection of the Sonic adventure one controls/gameplays (i'm talking about the speed levels. The other types shouldnt even be there in the first place, and i totally agree with you on that).

There is no blinding bias here. These changes are what has made Sonic bad. There is no core to fall back on and from where to expand like there is in Mario. The core gameplay of a Sonic game is not set because its constantly changing. I totally disagree with you though, i think modern Sonic's gameplay only appealed to a fraction of players because its just way too fast. There is no control and you just change lanes for the most part. There is no platformer game in those. Its an on-rails game. Yes, i know they mixed in a few pieces of 2D. But that should be the focus and not the "mix-in". It was a complete cop-out cause it excused them to perfect the system from Sonic adventure 2 (again i am talking about the Sonic levels). And Sonic 06 tried to do that but was simply rushed out before it got polished.


But SA2 was garbage, too. Especially the Sonic levels. It blows my mind how people still defend that game. Its Sonic 06/Boom bad, if not worse. It's been years, guys. It's alright to admit it was bad, now.

The reason Sega keeps reinventing the wheel is because they never invented the wheel in the first place. They drew the wheel perfectly in 2D on sketch paper a few times, then fucked up every attempt to make even a mediocre wheel in 3D. The only one that approached mediocrity was Lost World. At least that game had alright controls. Everything else was poor (Unleashed, Colors, Generations) to absolute abominations (SA1, SA2, Heroes, 06, Boom, everything else.)



Around the Network
spemanig said:
Nem said:

You are confusing game structure with the gameplay itself.

Yes, the structure has been changed on every game since the original trilogy (i wouldnt say Sonic CD though. That is pretty much the same with the added time travel mechanic wich just adds more levels of the same).

The gameplay itself is the way in wich you control Sonic and he moves around. 2D Sonic was already optimised by Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 just perfected it even more. Sonic adventure 2 was a perfection of the Sonic adventure one controls/gameplays (i'm talking about the speed levels. The other types shouldnt even be there in the first place, and i totally agree with you on that).

There is no blinding bias here. These changes are what has made Sonic bad. There is no core to fall back on and from where to expand like there is in Mario. The core gameplay of a Sonic game is not set because its constantly changing. I totally disagree with you though, i think modern Sonic's gameplay only appealed to a fraction of players because its just way too fast. There is no control and you just change lanes for the most part. There is no platformer game in those. Its an on-rails game. Yes, i know they mixed in a few pieces of 2D. But that should be the focus and not the "mix-in". It was a complete cop-out cause it excused them to perfect the system from Sonic adventure 2 (again i am talking about the Sonic levels). And Sonic 06 tried to do that but was simply rushed out before it got polished.


But SA2 was garbage, too. Especially the Sonic levels. It blows my mind how people still defend that game. Its Sonic 06/Boom bad, if not worse. It's been years, guys. It's alright to admit it was bad, now.

The reason Sega keeps reinventing the wheel is because they never invented the wheel in the first place. They drew the wheel perfectly in 2D on sketch paper a few times, then fucked up every attempt to make even a mediocre wheel in 3D. The only one that approached mediocrity was Lost World. At least that game had alright controls. Everything else was poor (Unleashed, Colors, Generations) to absolute abominations (SA1, SA2, Heroes, 06, Boom, everything else.)


Nope. You are judging it from today's standards, not the time when it launched.  And again, i am talking about the speed stages, not the whole game. And Sonic 06 is an incomplete game. Its unfair to be saying its bad when it wasnt even done. Everything was broken. The hype for it was real though. Its why it ended up selling loads regardless.

They did not perfect what they had with the sonic gameplay on SA2, so obviously it did not move to the levels where its perfected by today's standards.

I will agree that the 2D wheel was perfectly drawn though.



Nem said:
Xxain said:


"This Sonic has been trying to re-Invent the wheel instead of polishing it"

Have you been under a rock since Sonic's creation? 

Re inventing the wheel has been a staple of ALL Sonic teams Since Sonic CD!! Sonic has never had consistency on the level of Mega Man and Mario.

SA1 to SA2 had a complete structure chabge after 1 game. Sonic and Knuckles were the only thing to carry over but even then changes happened. SA2 Sonic levels were designed to be downhill racetracks and lost alot of the platforming from SA1 and were also more linear.

2D/3D Boost to win that still had alot life  in it, then Lost World changed it again.

Sonic Heroes had a brand new design, used for 1 game

Sonic 1 to Sonic CD is a huge change in focus. Luckily 2 beat CD to market would have been off putting if CD was Sonic 2 like was suppose to be.

Let's not mention Sonic Teams other experiments: 3D Blast, Labryth. 

Re Inventing wheel to often  is one of the major gripes of the franchise. Dont let your biased blind you into thinking its a current problem. 


You are confusing game structure with the gameplay itself.

Yes, the structure has been changed on every game since the original trilogy (i wouldnt say Sonic CD though. That is pretty much the same with the added time travel mechanic wich just adds more levels of the same).

The gameplay itself is the way in wich you control Sonic and he moves around. 2D Sonic was already optimised by Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 just perfected it even more. Sonic adventure 2 was a perfection of the Sonic adventure one controls/gameplays (i'm talking about the speed levels. The other types shouldnt even be there in the first place, and i totally agree with you on that).

There is no blinding bias here. These changes are what has made Sonic bad. There is no core to fall back on and from where to expand like there is in Mario. The core gameplay of a Sonic game is not set because its constantly changing. I totally disagree with you though, i think modern Sonic's gameplay only appealed to a fraction of players because its just way too fast. There is no control and you just change lanes for the most part. There is no platformer game in those. Its an on-rails game. Yes, i know they mixed in a few pieces of 2D. But that should be the focus and not the "mix-in". It was a complete cop-out cause it excused them to perfect the system from Sonic adventure 2 (again i am talking about the Sonic levels). And Sonic 06 tried to do that but was simply rushed out before it got polished.


Of course there is a bias. You have made it quite clear you prefer the Adventure era Sonic, fine, but you constantly put it on pedal while ignoring the fact nearly all Sonic's problems started there or in the case of re iventing wheel, before.  

Your second paragraph agrees with with what I said. When I said Boost to Win has life I means ways they could advance it. They Hadn't hit a brick. Im not a fan of Boost to win but there was alot of room to make it better.  

Sonic's problems have always been his problem. It didnt start with New Sonic Team, or Naka leaving ext. Thats the main point Im making. Lets not pretend adventure ara was the exception. 



Xxain said:
Nem said:


You are confusing game structure with the gameplay itself.

Yes, the structure has been changed on every game since the original trilogy (i wouldnt say Sonic CD though. That is pretty much the same with the added time travel mechanic wich just adds more levels of the same).

The gameplay itself is the way in wich you control Sonic and he moves around. 2D Sonic was already optimised by Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 just perfected it even more. Sonic adventure 2 was a perfection of the Sonic adventure one controls/gameplays (i'm talking about the speed levels. The other types shouldnt even be there in the first place, and i totally agree with you on that).

There is no blinding bias here. These changes are what has made Sonic bad. There is no core to fall back on and from where to expand like there is in Mario. The core gameplay of a Sonic game is not set because its constantly changing. I totally disagree with you though, i think modern Sonic's gameplay only appealed to a fraction of players because its just way too fast. There is no control and you just change lanes for the most part. There is no platformer game in those. Its an on-rails game. Yes, i know they mixed in a few pieces of 2D. But that should be the focus and not the "mix-in". It was a complete cop-out cause it excused them to perfect the system from Sonic adventure 2 (again i am talking about the Sonic levels). And Sonic 06 tried to do that but was simply rushed out before it got polished.


Of course there is a bias. You have made it quite clear you prefer the Adventure era Sonic, fine, but you constantly put it on pedal while ignoring the fact nearly all Sonic's problems started there or in the case of re iventing wheel, before.  

Your second paragraph agrees with with what I said. When I said Boost to Win has life I means ways they could advance it. They Hadn't hit a brick. Im not a fan of Boost to win but there was alot of room to make it better.  

Sonic's problems have always been his problem. It didnt start with New Sonic Team, or Naka leaving ext. Thats the main point Im making. Lets not pretend adventure ara was the exception. 


That isnt the case at all. I am splitting 2D and 3D.

If your point is: Stick to 2D. I'm ok with that. But if they want to go 3D, i'm saying what i think worked best.

The adventures were not perfect at all. But the speed stages were moving in the right direction. I want a full Sonic game with that gameplay.



Nem said:
Xxain said:


Of course there is a bias. You have made it quite clear you prefer the Adventure era Sonic, fine, but you constantly put it on pedal while ignoring the fact nearly all Sonic's problems started there or in the case of re iventing wheel, before.  

Your second paragraph agrees with with what I said. When I said Boost to Win has life I means ways they could advance it. They Hadn't hit a brick. Im not a fan of Boost to win but there was alot of room to make it better.  

Sonic's problems have always been his problem. It didnt start with New Sonic Team, or Naka leaving ext. Thats the main point Im making. Lets not pretend adventure ara was the exception. 


That isnt the case at all. I am splitting 2D and 3D.

If your point is: Stick to 2D. I'm ok with that. But if they want to go 3D, i'm saying what i think worked best.

The adventures were not perfect at all. But the speed stages were moving in the right direction. I want a full Sonic game with that gameplay.

My standpoint is - Whatever Sonic Team does they need to stick with for more than just one or two games. If it was up to me Sonic would have one game design it would stick to per gen. 



Around the Network

I guess that means no Generations 2 or Rush 3 . =(



Einsam_Delphin said:
I guess that means no Generations 2 or Rush 3 . =(


Generations is anniversary game not a series. Unleashed is Rush 3



Nem said:

Nope. You are judging it from today's standards, not the time when it launched.  And again, i am talking about the speed stages, not the whole game. And Sonic 06 is an incomplete game. Its unfair to be saying its bad when it wasnt even done. Everything was broken. The hype for it was real though. Its why it ended up selling loads regardless.

They did not perfect what they had with the sonic gameplay on SA2, so obviously it did not move to the levels where its perfected by today's standards.

I will agree that the 2D wheel was perfectly drawn though.


Todays standards!? SA2 was always garbage. I hate when people say that. "Today's standards." As though people 15 years ago couldn't tell if a game was a crappy mess or not. Wind Waker isn't just good by "todays standards." It's good. Super Mario World isn't just good by "todays standards." It's just good. OoT isn't just good by "today's standards." It was always good. SA2 was never not a shit game.

Again, so am I. The speed sections were literally just as bad as everything else. The game was crap. The controls were bad, the camera was bad, the story was bad, the voice acting was bad, the script was bad, the level design was bad, the animations were bad, and the graphics/art direction was bad. Literally everything in that game outside of the soundtrack was fermented fecal matter. At least Sonic 06 and Boom have the excuse of being incomplete. SA and SA2 were bad and still released complete on purpose.

Mario 64 is still good today. That was Mario's first 3D game. SA1 and SA2 were abominations the days they came out. They came out on stronger hardware and still sucked ass. There was nothing to perfect. They were just terribly designed games from inception. A 3D Sonic game should borrow absolutely no ideas from them. No rolling around at the speed of sound. No homing. No terrible level design. Nothing.



Xxain said:

Generations is anniversary game not a series. Unleashed is Rush 3


Tell that to New Super Mario Bros. 2, Wii, and U.



Of course...