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Forums - Politics Discussion - Hot dogs, bacon and other processed meats cause cancer, WHO declares

archer9234 on 26 October 2015
FIT_Gamer said:

pokoko said:

 You seriously have no idea what you're talking about and you should probably look this up before you go any further.  Most animals don't give a damn if other animals outside their pack die or even suffer.

And, no, all the animals I mentioned are documented as killing for reasons outside of food or defense.  Cats will play with small animals before killing them.  They'll also kill kittens that do not belong to them--I've seen that happen, by the way, as we've had an entire litter wiped out.  Wolves will hunt down and kill animals when they're not hungry and leave the carcass.  Otters will play and kill with fish even when they're full.  Sea lions will tear the fins off of fish and leave them to die, just for fun.  

Chimps will bully, gang up on, and murder other chimps for no reason we can determine.  They'll play with and kill smaller animals, including other primates.  They will take baby chimps away from their mothers and kill them. 

The gentle dolphin?  They kill other species for fun.

As far as pigs go, my uncle raised hogs.  Some of the boars are big and nasty tempered and will knock you down and maul you.  Wild pigs will attack you and won't hesitate to kill and eat other animals.  

People think all animals stepped right out of Disney movies but that's not true at all.  Most animals are amoral.   

I never said those things don't happen. The scale in which those events happen pale in comparison to our acts towards them. In most cases if an animal kills another animal it's for the reasons listed. Point is the entire animal kingdom combined, is no where near as malicious towards each other as we human beings are to them. Whether directly or indirectly we cause more suffering and oppression for them than they could ever cause for each other. For a species who claims to be intellicually superior to other animals we sure go about showing it in very non-intellicual way.   

 

That's because there's 7 billion dominate people on the planet. Remove us form the equation. And I will say: if any other species on earth reached that dominate position. They'll do the similar things that people do. Even if they are not intelligent.



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generic-user-1 on 26 October 2015
pepharytheworm said:
Whether or not we can all agree if in general eating meat is bad or good, I think we can all agree that too much is definitely bad and eating more vegetables is good.

And in the US we eat too much meat and dairy and not enough veggies.

veggies are the most useless food you can eat, there is just nothing to gain from it. 

you can eat paper salad and is has the same value than normal salad.

fruits on the other hand are important, they are a good way of consuming vitamins, and contain important sugar.

people from the us eat to much not selfcooked stuff, thats the main problem.

and they use the wrong sugar, and to much soy products.  those two things are realy problematic. HFCSs cause metabolic syndrome and soy products make you infertil and destroy your guts.



FIT_Gamer on 26 October 2015
archer9234 said:

That's because there's 7 billion people on the planet. I will say if any other species on earth rached that. They do the same thing that people do. Even if they are not intelligent.


Yes because the 18 billion + chickens, will soon be locking us up in cages, breed 60 billion of us year, dump us in electric baths, then make wigs out of our hair and wear our hides because fashion. 



bdbdbd on 26 October 2015
FIT_Gamer said:
bdbdbd said:

If you fry (burn) them with too much heat, then yes. But if you burn veggies in the same way, they are carcinogenic aswell. Also, something like sunflower oil promotes cancer by nature, just like olive oil that's heated too much. Also, cancer cell feed on carbohydrates, which means LCHF could help you fight cancer (apparently so does vitamin D).

If carbs feed cancer it's odd that vegans have much lower chances of developing cancer, considering that is the majority of our diet. If you have a source for that i'd like to see it. I mean there studies that say carbs will make you fat, which is false. Fat and eating more than your body needs makes you fat.  I eat around 300 grams of carbs just for breakfast alone.

Low carb = low energy. 

This was the first link I could find:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3267662/

 

If fat makes you fat, how come low carb equals low energy? Look, it doesn't matter what you eat, as long as your energy intake is higher than consuption - that's what makes you fat. The worst thing you can eat is high carb and high fat, as that results in high energy intake. Your bloodsugar controls your eating, that depends on the glycemic load, meaning it doesn't virtually matter if you eat 100 or 20 grams fat with your 300 grams carbs, because the amount of carbs controls your appetite anyway. Based on studies, low carb and high fat is the most effective diet to lose weight - because it results in spontanious reduction in energy intake (due to steady bloodsugar levels and improved leptin metabolism).

 

Cancer cells feed on carbs - is different from causing it. Keep in mind, just like people eating LCHF, vegans do not eat many of those foods that cause inflammation (that is the "direct" cause of cancer). Vegans eat less processed food, no bread, less (non-natural) trans fats. And many of the vegans I know (that isn't many) eat low carb and high fat.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

archer9234 on 26 October 2015
FIT_Gamer said:
archer9234 said:

That's because there's 7 billion people on the planet. I will say if any other species on earth rached that. They do the same thing that people do. Even if they are not intelligent.


Yes because the 18 billion + chickens, will soon be locking us up in cages, breed 60 billion of us year, dump us in electric baths, then make wigs out of our hair and wear our hides because fashion. 

I should of said "That's because there's 7 billion dominate people on the planet". Remove us from the equation. And the species that wins out. Will do simliar things to humans. Not make fashion statments. But the death, mistreament and the senseless killing would still happen.



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pepharytheworm on 26 October 2015
archer9234 said:

 

That's because there's 7 billion people on the planet. I will say if any other species on earth rached that. They do the same thing that people do. Even if they are not intelligent.


There are several species that surpass 7 billion. The funny thing is some are livestock such as chickens. Ants not only surpass our quanity but also our combined mass. We are just the largest (in size) to be such a high number. Antartic Krill is definetly not going out of it's way to kill and cause others sufferings. lol



pepharytheworm on 26 October 2015
generic-user-1 said:
pepharytheworm said:
Whether or not we can all agree if in general eating meat is bad or good, I think we can all agree that too much is definitely bad and eating more vegetables is good.

And in the US we eat too much meat and dairy and not enough veggies.

veggies are the most useless food you can eat, there is just nothing to gain from it. 

you can eat paper salad and is has the same value than normal salad.

fruits on the other hand are important, they are a good way of consuming vitamins, and contain important sugar.

people from the us eat to much not selfcooked stuff, thats the main problem.

and they use the wrong sugar, and to much soy products.  those two things are realy problematic. HFCSs cause metabolic syndrome and soy products make you infertil and destroy your guts.


Spinach and Broccoli say hi. But seriouly when I say veggies I mean all edible plant products and unprocessed



bdbdbd on 26 October 2015
MegaDrive08 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
MegaDrive08 said:
Octane said:

You stopped ageing... lol sure... Don't know if I can take you serious or not. Anyway, I agree to an extent, eating too much meat isn't healthy, but that's the case with a lot of things. About milk, it didn't use to be ''natural'', but humans (with the exception of some African tribes) have developed a resistance against lactose, and it is completely fine to drink, but again, not too much. Meat on the other hand has always been part of the human diet.

Again, did you read my post? Different types of food have different effects on our body, but acidity doesn't matter.

It depends on how the research is conducted. I've seen and read plenty of half-arsed research papers in my life, but the things that's usually worse is the conclusions people draw. The raw data itself is usually interpreted wrongly. A lot of people tend to confuse causation and correlation. I can conduct a research where I follow 5,000 people that consume ''processed'' foods and 5,000 people that are on a ''natural'' diet (or even vegetarians if you want). I'm almost certain that the results will show that group A, the one that consumes relatively more ''processed'' foods are more likely to develop cancer than group B. However that isn't proof that ''processed'' foods cause cancer. There's usually a lot more going on. It's just a correlation, not a causation. If you're very concious about what you eat, you probably don't smoke and you probably work out more as well; thus you're more likely living a healthier life than group A, thus explaining why group A is more prone to develop cancer than group B, not necesarily because they have a more unhealthy diet, but because their entire lifestyle is likely less healthy. But still, you need to find what actually causes the cancer and how it causes cancer.


Yeah sure many more things go into it, such as excercise, genetics, drinking, smoking ect which i dont do either, and my ageing process has slowed dramatically i look over 10 years younger than i am, but think what you want about meat and dairy, humans are not carnivores, until you can eat your meat raw with furr blood and all, your not a real carnivore, our jaws work in a grinding motion not straight up and down like a lion, we sweat through our pores like a  herbivore.

Nope. But there's also such thing as an omnivore so...


We only need to eat meat in a survival situation, its still not natural for us to be doing so, especially on the level were at today, we could feed the world twice over for all the farm land used to grow food to feed the animals that are been prepared to go off to slaughter in the meat industry.


That's actually not true. The best thing to do would be to pasture cows in the current deserts.

 

Human front teeth are sharp and back teeth are what's used to grind - so, yes, definately an omnivore. What isn't natural, is the processed food you get these days. And if you want argue with the "natural" argument, it is grains that aren't natural human food, as they've been part of human diet about the last 10k years, whereas meat have been a part of the diet for the last 200k years.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Wagram on 26 October 2015

Delicious cancer.



FIT_Gamer on 26 October 2015
bdbdbd said:

This was the first link I could find:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3267662/

 

If fat makes you fat, how come low carb equals low energy? Look, it doesn't matter what you eat, as long as your energy intake is higher than consuption - that's what makes you fat. The worst thing you can eat is high carb and high fat, as that results in high energy intake. Your bloodsugar controls your eating, that depends on the glycemic load, meaning it doesn't virtually matter if you eat 100 or 20 grams fat with your 300 grams carbs, because the amount of carbs controls your appetite anyway. Based on studies, low carb and high fat is the most effective diet to lose weight - because it results in spontanious reduction in energy intake (due to steady bloodsugar levels and improved leptin metabolism).

 

Cancer cells feed on carbs - is different from causing it. Keep in mind, just like people eating LCHF, vegans do not eat many of those foods that cause inflammation (that is the "direct" cause of cancer). Vegans eat less processed food, no bread, less (non-natural) trans fats. And many of the vegans I know (that isn't many) eat low carb and high fat.

Thanks for link. When people live on low carb diets, such as paleo or ketogenic. Your energy levels go way down. Which why most people on those diets drink coffee and other caffeine drinks all day just to function. Same with body building. A lot of competitive body builders go on low carb diets when cutting and lose strength and have low energy. 

Most raw food or mostly raw food vegans are on 80/10/10(80% carbs/10% protein/10% fat) or something close. I myself do 70/20/10. Really unless they  are vegan body builder or strong man, fat intake is usually pretty low.