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Forums - Gaming - Canadian Prime Minister: 'we need to fight GamerGate and videogame misogyny'

 

Agree with the Canadian Prime Minister?

Yes 37 16.59%
 
No 138 61.88%
 
I couldn't care less 47 21.08%
 
Total:222
LivingMetal on 22 October 2015

I remember starting a post asking what is Gamergate. Now that I've been "enlightened," I'm PRO-Gamergate. I'm (mostly) of Asian decent, and I have a four year old daughter whom I cherish. All sides have their extremist bad apples. But I'm for the integrity of gaming and the gaming community, and I'm sick of agenda twisting attention seekers distorting the truth to force their ways at the expense of others.



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Lawlight on 22 October 2015
Puppyroach said:
Nem said:

I'm tired of self proclaimed Social fighters. They are becoming the scum of the earth.

Puppyroach said:
I am no feminist but I agree with him regarding GG, and to some degree regarding the other issue. I want more diversity in games and I personally want misogony to go away (it all depends on the context of the game though). But I mainly want game developers to have a high degree of freedom to develop games the way they want them to be.

What i want is for them to think about none of that. When you are forcing them to take into account your personal values, their creation is going to be affected by you. It will no longer be their creation. It will be an abortion. 

This leads to very forced and lame creations. You can tell when something is beeing forced in order to give special treatment to groups that think they are discriminated. Its all bollocks because discrimination only happens when you treat someone in a special way. In a way, giving special treatment is also racism. Be it in a negative or positive way. But alas, you wont see said groups unhappy when its a positive special treatment, wich just goes to prove how contradictory they are.

Of course they should think about it. They think about it when they put a guy in a game, or when they depict aliens in one way or another. The way we approach things in life is a product of how we are affected by society and people around us. Being blind to that is just plain stupid.

You may hate "self proclaimed social fighters" but I hate when people think they are for some kind of "liberty" but have problems receiveing critiscism for their expressions. A liberal society is a society where you can say what you want but also receive critiscism for what you say. Crying the moment someone is critical is just silly. So yes, games developers shouldn´t be immune to getting critizised for their games, but we should not as a society therefore regulate what they are allowed to create.

That's not what a liberal society is these day. It means toe the line or be a pariah.



Puppyroach on 22 October 2015
Lawlight said:
Puppyroach said:

Well, if there is mysandry in games, of course I am not for it. It is always a matter of context though, just like with misogony.

You think there is plenty of diversity in games, I think there could be more. I like that we are getting more and more diversity since it makes many games more interesting and a lot more enjoyable. It has become better and better, just looking back 30 years and seeing how gamers reacted to Samus Aran being a woman, compared to how we find it more natural that half of the spartan are male and half female, are good signs. But we can always be better.

I mean not just in games. GG was just as much a hate campaign against men as it was the other way round.

I don't see how diversity would make, for example, Uncharted a better game if we replace Nathan Drake. Mind explaining that to me?

Precisely my point. The reason I am not a feminist is because it is a one-sided view of the world, where feminists generalizes about men. I oppose those views, but the moment I, as a critic to those view, starts to harass or being sexist towards those people, I am the one to blame (you know, two wrongs don´t make a right :)).

Diversity is about game developers chalennging themselves, and not be lazy. A very good, classic example of this, is Metroid. The fact that Miyamoto made the main character a woman, broke many people´s classic view of who the hero is and helped the game make a huge impact.

I ma not saying Uncharted would be a better game if it was more diverse, but would it be a worse game? Are the game developers so lazy, that they cannot even challenge themselves artistically and create new and unexpected situations and concepts regarding games? It feels wrong to mention Naughty Dog in this regard since I think that they ARE a developer that can take games in new directions and challenge the gamer in fascinating ways, yet still make amazing games.



LivingMetal on 22 October 2015
AlfredoTurkey said:

Video games, imo, fall into the umbrella of art. You can't dictate what artists are going to make. As long as someone wants to see women half naked with their fake boobs bouncing around, someone is going to put it into a game.

Rockstar will never bow down to these fascists.


As an artist, I respectfully disagree with you that video games fall under the umbrella of art, but I will say that video games can be employed as a medium for art.  And the knee-jerking masses fail to ignore the plethora of non "women half naked with their fake boobs bouncing around" characters.  Claasic Nintendo female characters come to mind.  Most all female charaters from the Persona series.  Chun-Li from Street Fighter.  Females from the Atelier series.  The ladies from Resident Evil.  The Dynasty Warriors female fighters.  Most any Final Fantasy female character.  Female vocaloids.  Etc., etc., etc.  LOTS of female charater in video games who do not get the same controversal attention as the others because they aren't as... ccontroversal.



Lawlight on 22 October 2015
Puppyroach said:
Lawlight said:
Puppyroach said:

Well, if there is mysandry in games, of course I am not for it. It is always a matter of context though, just like with misogony.

You think there is plenty of diversity in games, I think there could be more. I like that we are getting more and more diversity since it makes many games more interesting and a lot more enjoyable. It has become better and better, just looking back 30 years and seeing how gamers reacted to Samus Aran being a woman, compared to how we find it more natural that half of the spartan are male and half female, are good signs. But we can always be better.

I mean not just in games. GG was just as much a hate campaign against men as it was the other way round.

I don't see how diversity would make, for example, Uncharted a better game if we replace Nathan Drake. Mind explaining that to me?

Precisely my point. The reason I am not a feminist is because it is a one-sided view of the world, where feminists generalizes about men. I oppose those views, but the moment I, as a critic to those view, starts to harass or being sexist towards those people, I am the one to blame (you know, two wrongs don´t make a right :)).

Diversity is about game developers chalennging themselves, and not be lazy. A very good, classic example of this, is Metroid. The fact that Miyamoto made the main character a woman, broke many people´s classic view of who the hero is and helped the game make a huge impact.

I ma not saying Uncharted would be a better game if it was more diverse, but would it be a worse game? Are the game developers so lazy, that they cannot even challenge themselves artistically and create new and unexpected situations and concepts regarding games? It feels wrong to mention Naughty Dog in this regard since I think that they ARE a developer that can take games in new directions and challenge the gamer in fascinating ways, yet still make amazing games.


I think the challenge when making a game isn't the character's skin colour but the character itself. It's easy to make a character of a certain ethnicity but making a character good is challenging regardless of the ethnicity.



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PxlStorm on 22 October 2015

Because that's most likely the biggest problem the world has right now, right?



Aeolus451 on 22 October 2015

Another politician that doesn't know what's going on. Hopefully, it's one of those politicians that don't mean much of what they say.

GG is pretty silly in my opinion. It was blown way out of proportion.  There's always fanatics (thankfully a tiny minority) of any group or belief that will threaten and say all sorts of nasty things to dissuade others who disagree with them or who are a threat to their beliefs.  

I have yet to see any game that promotes misogyny but if I go a feminist site and say that I'm male and disagree with them on some things, I'll get alot of nasty responses well within the boundaries of what's considered misandry. 

Anyway, what is that saying about first world issues?



bouzane on 22 October 2015

I'm staunchly on the side of #gamrgate because video game journalism is an unethical farce and there is clearly a well coordinated movement undermining the medium in order to push a neo-progressive agenda.

I think we need to fight Trudeau because frankly, he's a poor excuse for a "Liberal" (still a huge improvement over the three flush corn log we just got rid of though).



Nem on 22 October 2015
Puppyroach said:
Nem said:

I'm tired of self proclaimed Social fighters. They are becoming the scum of the earth.

Puppyroach said:
I am no feminist but I agree with him regarding GG, and to some degree regarding the other issue. I want more diversity in games and I personally want misogony to go away (it all depends on the context of the game though). But I mainly want game developers to have a high degree of freedom to develop games the way they want them to be.

What i want is for them to think about none of that. When you are forcing them to take into account your personal values, their creation is going to be affected by you. It will no longer be their creation. It will be an abortion. 

This leads to very forced and lame creations. You can tell when something is beeing forced in order to give special treatment to groups that think they are discriminated. Its all bollocks because discrimination only happens when you treat someone in a special way. In a way, giving special treatment is also racism. Be it in a negative or positive way. But alas, you wont see said groups unhappy when its a positive special treatment, wich just goes to prove how contradictory they are.

Of course they should think about it. They think about it when they put a guy in a game, or when they depict aliens in one way or another. The way we approach things in life is a product of how we are affected by society and people around us. Being blind to that is just plain stupid.

You may hate "self proclaimed social fighters" but I hate when people think they are for some kind of "liberty" but have problems receiveing critiscism for their expressions. A liberal society is a society where you can say what you want but also receive critiscism for what you say. Crying the moment someone is critical is just silly. So yes, games developers shouldn´t be immune to getting critizised for their games, but we should not as a society therefore regulate what they are allowed to create.


Just want to clear my first comment wasnt related to you, it was just above the quote. apologies if it seemed that way. It was a comment to the canadian PM.

Of course everyone has societies influence over them, but when they make something, it comes from their own vision when creating it. What i don't want is for them to come up with the idea and people going: Oh we should have that character be this or that race and or gender to promote variety. That is racism you know. Its an ugly form of racism wich pretends they care for personal gain. The lack of racism is to not think about other/group of people in a special way.



bouzane on 22 October 2015
padib said:
bouzane said:
I'm staunchly on the side of #gamrgate because video game journalism is an unethical farce and there is clearly a well coordinated movement undermining the medium in order to push a neo-progressive agenda.

I think we need to fight Trudeau because frankly, he's a poor excuse for a "Liberal" (still a huge improvement over the three flush corn log we just got rid of though).

If we just keep fighting, where are we going to go? The problem with our politics is that it's always about fighting.

In the end none of the big 3's ideas and intentions are bad, they just need to learn to work together.

That is the problem with Canadian politics and has always been the problem. It's always about fighting when, if we combined our ideas together, our country would come out so much stronger.

Anyway, we don't know his full opinion on this issue so why keep going with the pile-ups?


I am personally of the opinion that politicians often have bad intentions and it is the duty of the people to keep them in check. When my local MP votes against my rights I openly confront him. I am all in favor of cooperation but we should never accept extremists or their views and policies.