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Forums - Politics Discussion - Pope: Workers Have 'Human Right' to Refuse Same-Sex Marriage Licenses

This is just simple.
Keep public/civil what´s public/civil and personal what´s personal

Laws are public and secular, they must be followed
Religious belifs are personal and must be kept personal.

So... legal civil marriage for same-sex couples? ok, that´s a public/secular matter and we should just accept it as a possibility allowed by law.
Religious same-sex marriage? It´s a personal matter and we shouldn´t mess with what´s personal, so if a religion does not practice same-sex marriage, let them just live by that, they´re not practicing civil marriage after all.

Keep religious what´s religious and keep secular what´s secular.



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generic-user-1 said:
naruball said:

Xander is clearly referring to stupid Christians, not the reasonable ones. I'm a Christian and do not support what that woman is doing. I also find not resigning from a job you can't do, stupid. There are stupid Christians just like there are stupid republicans and stupid democrats. Doesn't mean that everyone who's a republican is stupid. So, if you consider yourself a stupid Christian, then that comment refers to you. If you don't, it doesn't. I, for example, wasn't offended.

find me a not stupid republican and i find you a unicorn... they have no problem with candidates that dont think evolution is a thing. thats realy stupid, like realy realy realy stupid. the only more stupid thing is trickle down economics

Well, to be honest, I had some Christian republican friends who were awesome people. They almost never talked about politics (apart from the time that Obama was elected) and they focused on their friends and families. Based on the conversations I had with them and on the things I see them post on fb I don't get the impression that they're stupid. So, if you lived in America, I'd suggest you meet them and I'm sure you'd change your mind.

But also generalizations are bad, man. I mean, come on. Do you think that every single one of them is stupid? I don't agree with any of their arguments either, but I would never call an entire group of people stupid.



naruball said:
generic-user-1 said:
naruball said:
 

Xander is clearly referring to stupid Christians, not the reasonable ones. I'm a Christian and do not support what that woman is doing. I also find not resigning from a job you can't do, stupid. There are stupid Christians just like there are stupid republicans and stupid democrats. Doesn't mean that everyone who's a republican is stupid. So, if you consider yourself a stupid Christian, then that comment refers to you. If you don't, it doesn't. I, for example, wasn't offended.

find me a not stupid republican and i find you a unicorn... they have no problem with candidates that dont think evolution is a thing. thats realy stupid, like realy realy realy stupid. the only more stupid thing is trickle down economics

Well, to be honest, I had some Christian republican friends who were awesome people. They almost never talked about politics (apart from the time that Obama was elected) and they focused on their friends and families. Based on the conversations I had with them and on the things I see them post on fb I don't get the impression that they're stupid. So, if you lived in America, I'd suggest you meet them and I'm sure you'd change your mind.

But also generalizations are bad, man. I mean, come on. Do you think that every single one of them is stupid? I don't agree with any of their arguments either, but I would never call an entire group of people stupid.

how can you be christian AND republican? worshiping the lord of the poor, struggling masses and voting for the party that only has the cause to make rich people richer?  that doesnt mean they cant be good people who are nice to socialyse with, but they are well stupid.(or full of shit about beeing christians)



generic-user-1 said:

how can you be christian AND republican? worshiping the lord of the poor, struggling masses and voting for the party that only has the cause to make rich people richer?  that doesnt mean they cant be good people who are nice to socialyse with, but they are well stupid.(or full of shit about beeing christians)

It doesn't make much (if any) sense to me either. I've thought about this too but it's still a mystery to me.



If Kim Davis worked for a private company, I would agree. But here's the thing, as a government employee, you're supposed to be acting as a hand of the government, not serving your own personal beliefs.



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Francis is in opposite to that german benedict a really wnlighted person and i like him



REQUIESCAT IN PACE

I Hate REMASTERS

I Hate PLAYSTATION PLUS

Ka-pi96 said:
aLkaLiNE said

That's not a fact, that's an opinion.  A fact would be that there are others who DO share her discriminary beliefs so the idea she said 'no' is not that surprising, especially given the region. How do you feel about her jail time?

How is it not a fact? People criticised her, no? Therefore it is a fact that not all people think the same way she does.

As for her jail time? I think she should have been fired for it, but apparently that wasn't possible since she was elected, so if that's the only option they had then it is better than doing nothing.

People are jailed for contempt of court all the time, it's a common response to ignoring a court order if the guilty party won't be impacted by fines.  The people making such a huge deal out of her getting a little jail-time seem completely oblivious to how our court systems work.  Which should come as no surprise since equality seems to be a foreign concept as well.



I like the Pope but this is not a marriage done in the Church. So even if they object, they should not stop it.



Ka-pi96 said:
aLkaLiNE said
Ka-pi96 said:

Yeah, she should have just issued the marriage licence like she was supposed to rather than getting butthurt over the fact other people don't share her discriminatory beliefs.


That's not a fact, that's an opinion.  A fact would be that there are others who DO share her discriminary beliefs so the idea she said 'no' is not that surprising, especially given the region. How do you feel about her jail time?

How is it not a fact? People criticised her, no? Therefore it is a fact that not all people think the same way she does.

As for her jail time? I think she should have been fired for it, but apparently that wasn't possible since she was elected, so if that's the only option they had then it is better than doing nothing.

I know my quote tree got cut off and part of what you had said wasn't visible but you said it was a fact that no one else shared her point of view. I stated that it WAS a fact that there were others in this country, in this continent and in this world that do share her views. Yes of course there are plenty of people that disagree with her point of view as well, such as yourself.

 

Honestly though this isn't as simple a scenario as some of you make it out to be.  I'm looking at this from different angles and what she did might clash with her role in the government, but I think that jail time for the ordeal is overboard. Both sides did not handle this maturely after the initial point of conflict. 

 

And again, there are other examples where someone disobeying their orders can save lives. There are other examples where an employer asks someone to do something that while technicially in their job title, is dangerous, morally wrong, damaging or polluting.  In this case, no, but to just brush off the fact that she stood up for what she believed in in the same way the couple stood up for what they believed in is not taking all things into consideration.



Hiku said:

Equality means each person is considered for the job under the same criteria, and their performance is judged the same way. If one employee is fired because they refuse to do their job, then so should another. Religion should be respected in a workplace, as long as it doesn't interfear with their work. This is not a matter of equality, but a matter of incompetence. Miss Davis is not a competent person for that job, since she refuses to carry out certain duties.
Should an abortion clinic keep an employee who sorts out all the inventory, but refuses to assist in the proceedure if they're supposed to? No, then they should hire someone who is willing to do both things.
When I went to get my passport renewed the other day, I shouldn't have to be worried about the officer having joined some new religion and refusing to renew my passport for whatever reason. It's a public service. Not "we'll serve you if we feel like it."


The circumstance for what occured in this situation needs to be taken into account as well though;

First off, gay marriage JUST got legalized nationwide.  Her preference on sexuality did not have to be taken into account before, considering she was hired before this movement caught fire. It was simply a man marrying a woman.

So at the intitial point of her hiring, she was not unqualified.  She became unqualified when a new law had passed that clashed with her morals.  This is a text book case of discrimination but it's simply not as cut and dry - there's more going on here on a moral level that's hard to measure.  

 

Anyway I knew this was an uphill battle coming in so I concede lol.  It's pleasing to hold a conversation with such collected and intelligent folks here.