I agree that Cell processor was horrible. But it was more favorable compared to weird machination that is Emotion Engine.
Mr Tom Forsyth, I'm pretty sure that you weren't working on it alone or for free...
ganoncrotch said:
It's actually a perfectly normal way to describe it... just that we kinda have a stigma on the word now in the very much Non PC term that it is used to describe a person who is mentally challenged. OT I disagree, Sony used the ps3 as a tester for being the most powerful piece of hardware in the console market, given that they refined it into the ps4 now I think it was a good thing they went with some crazy power cpu last gen. (made for some shit ports, but some great looking games which used the power well) |
Here's the thing, if Sony wanted to have the most powerful hardware on the market they should have focused on GPU, not CPU. With a cheaper CPU and signifciantly more powerful GPU, the PS3 probably could have crushed the 360 in presentation or performance. Look at 8th gen consoles. The reason PS4 games are generally superior on visuals or performance is because of GPU.
Sony exclusives had great visuals because that's what Sony focused on. They likely could have pushed those same graphics with the 360 specs. Maybe they could have done better with 360 specs given its superior GPU.
PS3 wasn't a tester, it was a disaster. It was signficiantly more expensive to produce than 360 and had similar graphics. If anything, PS3 encouraged Sony not to put cutting edge tech in their next machine. This is why PS4 launched at a reasonable price.
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Because the difiilty of the CELL, a lot of third party studios had problems developing there, but I doubt it was harder than Emotion Engine on PS2 nor easier...
On the upside of the CELL, I have to say that it helped on good things... SONY had to put a comunity of developers between their internal studios and develop their Graphic Engine (PhyreEngine) used on a lot of minor third party games (specially japaneses like NIS, Falcom, IdeaFactory, Compile Heart and some indie devs too) that probably wouldn't the chance to jump to the next gen earlier beause the developing costs growing up...
I would dare to say that the "closer to the metal" philosophy behind MANTLE and DX12 is derived from the experience with CELL... and the Devkits and most of engines from First party studios are based on all the work on it.
And then the biggest examples of why CELL wasn't a retard for the industry is the games developed for it... a lot of games worth awards and infinite praises were developed on CELL, and we have to remember the weak GPU PS3 had.. Thanks to CELL PS3 wasn't a biggest mess at the beginning... and was a marvelous platform at the end.
| Kagerow said: I agree that Cell processor was horrible. But it was more favorable compared to weird machination that is Emotion Engine. Mr Tom Forsyth, I'm pretty sure that you weren't working on it alone or for free... |
Well the Emotion Engine used RISC, so I'm assuming developers were fine with that.
If anything developers were probably more frustrated with the GPU of PS2. It seems like OG Xbox got exclusives simply because its GPU was a beast in comparison.
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I mean it was designed to (And did succeed at times) offload many of the GPU's tasks and act as almost a second mini-GPU.
This allowed TLoU and Killzone 2/3 to make the games on 360 look half a gen behind, and games like BF4 got higher levels of MSAA on PS3 since the cell could run. Whether or not it was worth it in terms of programming is up for debate, but imo where it really was a waste was cost. I mean the PS3 would probably cost $20-$40 less right now if it wasn't so damn expensive to manufacture the CELL.
Prediction for console Lifetime sales:
Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million
[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]
3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m
I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.
[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]
Imaginedvl said:
Quite an analysis here... OP: Nobody can really argue that the Cell was over complicated for nothing. Even Sony dropped it after all. |
I remember seeing an article where Ubisoft claimed the PS3 processor is actually more capable than the PS4 processor. So why didn't Sony just use it for PS4? That could have made PS3 BC on PS4 relatively easy as well!
Well I'm guessing because Sony agreed the Cell was a pain in the ass and not worth using again.
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| Eddie_Raja said: I mean it was designed to (And did succeed at times) offload many of the GPU's tasks and act as almost a second mini-GPU. This allowed TLoU and Killzone 2/3 to make the games on 360 look half a gen behind, and games like BF4 got higher levels of MSAA on PS3 since the cell could run. Whether or not it was worth it in terms of programming is up for debate, but imo where it really was a waste was cost. I mean the PS3 would probably cost $20-$40 less right now if it wasn't so damn expensive to manufacture the CELL. |
Naughty Dog and Killzone games look good, but not that good. I'd argue games like Gears 3 and Halo 4 were at par and more technically impressive. As I mentinoed before, if they really wanted to crush the 360 visually, they should have used a more powerful GPU. That would have also helped justify the price disparity.
I think all Frostbite games are more polished on PS3. So that tells me that engine was simply better optimized on PS3, perhaps that was the lead platform. But lets not neglect the many games that look and/or perform better on Xbox 360. That includes the latest Metal Gear Solid.
When Sony fans see a port that performs better PS3, they assume those developers used the true potential of PS3. When ports are better on 360, there is a presumption developers were just lazy on PS3 even though the 360 GPU is technically superior.
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| LuckyTrouble said: We can't say in anything that resembles a definitive way that delays somehow became more accepted and normal, or really any more regular in the last generation, nor can we even begin to say it was exclusively the fault of the PS3. It isn't as if delays are new either. If anything, some devs are getting more comfortable simply delaying specific versions of games and releasing other versions as they're completed. The industry is in an endless transitionary phase as people try to figure out newer and better ways to get content to the people that desire it faster and more efficiently. Considering all the factors at play, blaming one console seems incredibly silly. And being on the technical side doesn't keep people from saying stupid and blatantly wrong things. If he didn't like working on the PS3, whatever, but saying it held back the entire industry is something that can't be justified and thus falls into the category of stupid statements. |
It wasn't entirely on the fault of Sony's technical decisions but with the PS3 having gaining quite a bit of traction you can't deny that it did have a persistent impact on the whole industry ...
As far as claiming that his statements are "stupid" or "wrong", what exactly do you know that he doesn't ?
Sure I think calling it "significant" is over exaggerating it however the impact was still mild ...
If it weren't for the Cell processor or blu-ray, games like The Last Guardian or FF versus XIII (now XV) wouldn't have struggled so badly and actually get released on it's intended platform plus last gen could've easily been 2 years shorter since Sony will have had an easier time making people adopt the platform or wouldn't have lost a large portion of their consumers to their competitors ...
| Lawlight said: And now there are less delays, right? And we've advanced so much since then gaming wise, right? |
Well it's certainly a good sign that there's not more delays due to some hypothetical idiotic decision at Sony trying to make a technical successor to the PS3 ...
I say the PS3 exclusives were far better than any of EA's efforts.If he could not understand how to maximize the architecture then that was his problem.
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