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Forums - Gaming - It looks like apple is entering the gaming space with apple tv.

Nuvendil on 10 September 2015
Soundwave said:
Nuvendil said:

Not necessarily.  It's not like there isn't any overlap here.  The real, serious question is will the people who are on their phones (that they get for little to no money spent in many cases) going to spend a substantial chunk of change to even *buy* this device.  I mean, the whole reason these people ever bought a Wii was because they didn't have the free smartphone option.  Now they do, will they go back to spending that just for an Apple TV?  Especially when this device lacks a Mario or Metroid or Zelda - substantial expereicnes worth spending significant money upfront - associated with it?  Not saying those experiences don't exist, they do.  But those aren't the ones with TV commercials and all that.  Those are your Candy Crush and Clash of Clans.  But either way, I doubt this will represent any threat to the core gaming market as it sits now.  Because the people interested in "B" experiences and F2P/cheap games and nothing else already have that AND those interested in both...are interested in both.  And I highly, highly doubt Apple is interested at all in getting into a war with MS, Sony, and Nintendo as that would require a very high ammount of spending just to get in fighting shape.   Much easier for them to sit back and get what they can for the minimal cost. 


For what its worth, AppleTV has been selling considerably better than the Wii U has. Early in its product cycle it was kind of a neglected product by Apple, but since 2012 with a new revision, sales have picked up dramatically:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178147655&postcount=204

Apple TV estimated shipments - ZhugeEX
2007- 0.3 million
2008- 0.3 million
2009- 0.7 million
2010- 1.6 million (REV2)
2011- 2.8 million
2012- 6.5 million (REV3)
2013- 7.0 million
2014- 6.0 million

These sales will likely increase a lot with this new model, so that while it won't have PS4 sales most likely, it will be likely outselling the Wii U by a mile and even the XBox One. 

Also while this particular model isn't neccessarily the be-all, end-all, I mean I think we have to consider that over time the hardware performance of this device will likely increase by leaps and bounds. An A9X processor for example could probably allow for games like Metal Gear Solid V to be played. 

But I think obviously the focus will be on more casual experiences. 

The issue is also that even if it *can* run MGSV, why would Konami put it there?  The consumer expected price of games on consoles is $40 to $60.  And the audience of mainstays in the console space are those interested and accustomed to upfront payment and repulsed by the image of f2p for their primary experience.  And companies like Konami and such have built development of those games around that price point and business model.  The mobile market, on the other hand, is opposite: consumers expect $0 to $5 tops, desire no upfront payment, etc.  Such an environment is not conducive to games built around the core game market model.  And simultaneously the established fans of such games would be repulsed by those tactics that dominate mobile.  And this device is tied into that market.

 

Not saying that this device will flop.  Apple has a dedicated foundation of fans who will buy this for one.  And it will get a few mil from other places.  It's just going to face the issue of selling like a dedicated device to a crowd not interested on the whole in the dedicated gaming thing and with a market that won't interest the dedicated gaming fans.  I think it will do enough for Apple to be satisfied, don't see it going further unless Apple gets extremely hands on with the app store and game development.



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Soundwave on 10 September 2015
Nuvendil said:
Soundwave said:


For what its worth, AppleTV has been selling considerably better than the Wii U has. Early in its product cycle it was kind of a neglected product by Apple, but since 2012 with a new revision, sales have picked up dramatically:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178147655&postcount=204

Apple TV estimated shipments - ZhugeEX
2007- 0.3 million
2008- 0.3 million
2009- 0.7 million
2010- 1.6 million (REV2)
2011- 2.8 million
2012- 6.5 million (REV3)
2013- 7.0 million
2014- 6.0 million

These sales will likely increase a lot with this new model, so that while it won't have PS4 sales most likely, it will be likely outselling the Wii U by a mile and even the XBox One. 

Also while this particular model isn't neccessarily the be-all, end-all, I mean I think we have to consider that over time the hardware performance of this device will likely increase by leaps and bounds. An A9X processor for example could probably allow for games like Metal Gear Solid V to be played. 

But I think obviously the focus will be on more casual experiences. 

The issue is also that even if it *can* run MGSV, why would Konami put it there?  The consumer expected price of games on consoles is $40 to $60.  And the audience of mainstays in the console space are those interested and accustomed to upfront payment and repulsed by the image of f2p for their primary experience.  And companies like Konami and such have built development of those games around that price point and business model.  The mobile market, on the other hand, is opposite: consumers expect $0 to $5 tops, desire no upfront payment, etc.  Such an environment is not conducive to games built around the core game market model.  And simultaneously the established fans of such games would be repulsed by those tactics that dominate mobile.  And this device is tied into that market.

 

Not saying that this device will flop.  Apple has a dedicated foundation of fans who will buy this for one.  And it will get a few mil from other places.  It's just going to face the issue of selling like a dedicated device to a crowd not interested on the whole in the dedicated gaming thing and with a market that won't interest the dedicated gaming fans.  I think it will do enough for Apple to be satisfied, don't see it going further unless Apple gets extremely hands on with the app store and game development.

It's not really not aiming to compete with Sony/MS right now, but it's problematic for Nintendo primarily I think because this could eat up a lot of the kids/cheap parent crowd over time. 

Skylanders was just announced for this too, so you can kinda see where it's going. At the same time though, mobile games are getting more and more advanced all the time too ... there's nothing to say Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy for example won't be playable one day on AppleTV because they already are on iOS. 

This could become the second best selling "game console" fairly quickly. Nintendo right now is averaging about 3 million Wii Us/year, Microsoft is in the range of 7 million XBox One's/year. Apple right now was selling 6-7 million/year of this, but that likely could increase to 10 million/year, which would effectively make them no.2. 



XanderXT on 10 September 2015
Conina said:
AEGRO said:
Conina said:
AEGRO said:

According to http://www.pocketgamer.biz/metrics/app-store/ there are 412,624 active games currently on the app store.

If you unite all of those games budgets, you couldnt make one GTA V.

Im sorry, but i dont want to spend the rest of my gaming days playing Angry Birds and Candy Crush.

Ignorance is bliss ;)

There are much better games on iOS and Android than Angry birds or Candy Crush.


LOL enlight me, name me a couple with a AAA scope.

The Apple TV won't be a competition to $300 - $400 consoles (PS4 + XBO), it will compete with 6th and 7th gen consoles + Kindle Fire TV + Nvidia Shield + other Android consoles.

Infinity Blade 1 - 3 still look great and if the Apple TV remote supports motion sensors they could be played like a Wii / Kinect game. Modern Combat 5, Dungeon Hunter 5, Asphalt 8: Airborne, Real Racing 3, GT Racing 2, Horn, Oceanhorn, Riptide GP 2, République, Epoch 2, Dead Trigger 2, Implosion and some other mobile games don't look bad either.

It can play many Telltale games in 1080p or higher, where the PS3 + 360 versions were limited to 720p (Game of Thrones, Tales from the Borderlands, The Wolf Among Us, The Walking Dead Seasons 1 + 2, Back to The Future, Tales of Monkey Island, Sam & Max...), Knights of the Old Republic, BioShock, Need for Speed Shift + Most Wanted, Civilization Revolution 1 + 2, XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Within, Ace Attorney Trilogy HD, Rayman Jungle / Fiesta Run, a lot of LEGO games, Deponia, Broken Sword 5, Steins;Gate and many other visual novels + JRPGs.

Classics like GTA III, Vice City, San Andreas in 1080p or higher, Final Fantasy I - VII, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle, Broken Sword 1 + 2, Dragon Quest IV + V, The Longest Journey, Fahrenheit HD, Castle of Illusion, DuckTales Remastered, realMyst, Riven, Gabriel Knight, Baldur's Gate and many others are still great fun to play.

Many great indie games like Anomaly 1 + 2 + Korea, Bastion, Transistor, Her Story, FTL, The Banner Saga, Monument Valley, The Room 1 + 2, Valiant Hearts, Hitman GO, Frozen Synapse, Leo's Fortune, Galaxy on Fire 2, The Journey Down 1 + 2, Broken Age, Shadowrun Returns / Dragonfall / Hong Kong, The Inner World, 80 Days, Device 6, Framed, Badlands also found their way to iOS.

Yeah but many of those games have a problem. They have no controller support. And many genres are nonexistent because of having no solid controls.



XanderXT on 10 September 2015
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Apple knows better than to get into gaming. Microsoft took Halo from them. They cant outmaneuver Microsoft in dirty tactics so whatever they try should be as casual as hell. Nothing serious.

That's really funny.



XanderXT on 10 September 2015
0815user said:

good, looks like i'm already set for this type of gaming.  

What is that?



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XanderXT on 10 September 2015
Roronaa_chan said:
Is that an Evil Corp product?

Yes.



Soundwave on 10 September 2015

There will probably be more controller support for games if Apple TV sells decently (which I think it will). Wouldn't take a whole lot to add physical controls a lot of iOS games.



Burek on 10 September 2015
Soundwave said:
Nuvendil said:

Not necessarily.  It's not like there isn't any overlap here.  The real, serious question is will the people who are on their phones (that they get for little to no money spent in many cases) going to spend a substantial chunk of change to even *buy* this device.  I mean, the whole reason these people ever bought a Wii was because they didn't have the free smartphone option.  Now they do, will they go back to spending that just for an Apple TV?  Especially when this device lacks a Mario or Metroid or Zelda - substantial expereicnes worth spending significant money upfront - associated with it?  Not saying those experiences don't exist, they do.  But those aren't the ones with TV commercials and all that.  Those are your Candy Crush and Clash of Clans.  But either way, I doubt this will represent any threat to the core gaming market as it sits now.  Because the people interested in "B" experiences and F2P/cheap games and nothing else already have that AND those interested in both...are interested in both.  And I highly, highly doubt Apple is interested at all in getting into a war with MS, Sony, and Nintendo as that would require a very high ammount of spending just to get in fighting shape.   Much easier for them to sit back and get what they can for the minimal cost. 


For what its worth, AppleTV has been selling considerably better than the Wii U has. Early in its product cycle it was kind of a neglected product by Apple, but since 2012 with a new revision, sales have picked up dramatically:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178147655&postcount=204

Apple TV estimated shipments - ZhugeEX
2007- 0.3 million
2008- 0.3 million
2009- 0.7 million
2010- 1.6 million (REV2)
2011- 2.8 million
2012- 6.5 million (REV3)
2013- 7.0 million
2014- 6.0 million

These sales will likely increase a lot with this new model, so that while it won't have PS4 sales most likely, it will be likely outselling the Wii U by a mile and even the XBox One. 

Also while this particular model isn't neccessarily the be-all, end-all, I mean I think we have to consider that over time the hardware performance of this device will likely increase by leaps and bounds. An A9X processor for example could probably allow for games like Metal Gear Solid V to be played. 

But I think obviously the focus will be on more casual experiences. It just also means IMO that Nintendo is going to have to go more upmarket with whatever home solution they come up with next time out. 


Why would sales increase a lot with this model? Because they added some casual games? I doubt that people will go crazy for this version, remember that those are sales of a $69 machine, which now costs more than double or even triple that. Especially when there are alternatives available for a fraction of a price.



Soundwave on 10 September 2015
Burek said:
Soundwave said:


For what its worth, AppleTV has been selling considerably better than the Wii U has. Early in its product cycle it was kind of a neglected product by Apple, but since 2012 with a new revision, sales have picked up dramatically:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178147655&postcount=204

Apple TV estimated shipments - ZhugeEX
2007- 0.3 million
2008- 0.3 million
2009- 0.7 million
2010- 1.6 million (REV2)
2011- 2.8 million
2012- 6.5 million (REV3)
2013- 7.0 million
2014- 6.0 million

These sales will likely increase a lot with this new model, so that while it won't have PS4 sales most likely, it will be likely outselling the Wii U by a mile and even the XBox One. 

Also while this particular model isn't neccessarily the be-all, end-all, I mean I think we have to consider that over time the hardware performance of this device will likely increase by leaps and bounds. An A9X processor for example could probably allow for games like Metal Gear Solid V to be played. 

But I think obviously the focus will be on more casual experiences. It just also means IMO that Nintendo is going to have to go more upmarket with whatever home solution they come up with next time out. 


Why would sales increase a lot with this model? Because they added some casual games? I doubt that people will go crazy for this version, remember that those are sales of a $69 machine, which now costs more than double or even triple that. Especially when there are alternatives available for a fraction of a price.

Because $149.99 is still pretty cheap and it will likely be getting a lot more marketing from Apple as this is setting the foundation for their future TV subscription service that is apparently coming. 

Probably next year this model (the one with the A8 processor) will be reduced to $99.99 or less and then they'll have a new one with the A9 or even A10 processor at $149.99 and that cycle will continue on and on. The $69.99 price point was only recently too anyway to clear out as much stock of the old model as possible, it's been $99.99 for the majority of that 2012-14 large increase in sales. 



Michelasso on 10 September 2015
Nuvendil said:

Not necessarily.  It's not like there isn't any overlap here.  The real, serious question is will the people who are on their phones (that they get for little to no money spent in many cases) going to spend a substantial chunk of change to even *buy* this device.  I mean, the whole reason these people ever bought a Wii was because they didn't have the free smartphone option.  Now they do, will they go back to spending that just for an Apple TV?  Especially when this device lacks a Mario or Metroid or Zelda - substantial expereicnes worth spending significant money upfront - associated with it?  Not saying those experiences don't exist, they do.  But those aren't the ones with TV commercials and all that.  Those are your Candy Crush and Clash of Clans.  But either way, I doubt this will represent any threat to the core gaming market as it sits now.  Because the people interested in "B" experiences and F2P/cheap games and nothing else already have that AND those interested in both...are interested in both.  And I highly, highly doubt Apple is interested at all in getting into a war with MS, Sony, and Nintendo as that would require a very high ammount of spending just to get in fighting shape.   Much easier for them to sit back and get what they can for the minimal cost. 


You are forgetting that this device allows to stream content from any iOS device and even iTunes from Mac/PC to the television. It isn't sold as a gaming console, it's a tv set top box which will also happen to play games. Now with the introduction of the App Store AirPlay will be obviously less needed. The Apple TV 4 is a fully fledged iOS device and as such it will have its own space in the living room. It may not sell gazillions (or will it?) but there is a market for it.

What could be scary are the next iterations of the box. It seems to me Apple is using this (and the iPad Pro) as a sneaking in strategy into the console gaming. If it works they will progress further. Otherwise they will adapt the next products to other needs. But more computing power is going to be there no matter what.