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Forums - Politics - Sandy Bland questionable arrest leads to mysterious death.

d21lewis on 27 July 2015
Hiku said:
AnthonyW86 said:

They are payed by taxes and that's why people need to COOPERATE and not waste an officers time. And the woman clearly has an attitude, that's why the officer asked her if there was a problem. And even while he just wanted to give her a warning she assumed she was getting fined.

Where do you get the idea that he was only going to give her a warning? I don't hear that anywhere in the footage. After he tells her to wait a few minutes while returning to his car (where he probably processed her information for the ticket) he returns to her car holding a notepad and a pen. I'm pretty sure you don't write out warnings. You give them verbally.

As for her attitude, look at it from her perspective. The cop started following her, and probably wanted her to pull over. So she did. And then she got a ticket for doing that. Improperly, but she probably feels like the whole thing was unnecesary. Being followed for what reason? Pulling over as they wanted her to, and then she was fined for doing so. If he was following her because of the stop sign, he should have told her this, but he didn't. She may not have noticed the stop sign, just like she wasn't aware that he had a right to tell her to get out of her car.

As for being paid by taxes, that's the point several people are mentioning here. They are paid by us, to help us. The police officer was not informative or helpful in this case. He caused her to pull over. He did not inform her of why they were following her in the first place. He let her frustration grow, and then he refused to answer questions, about why she was being arrested, or properly explain that he has the right to ask her to get out of the car for no reason, or that disobeying it leads to an arrest, etc.
And a lot of police officers, who are paid by us, waste our time, with nonsense pull overs. Me and my friends were pulled over one time for no reason, just so they could check all of our ID's. It took a while, then they let us go. We did not make it in time to our restaurant because of it.

No.  You can give verbal warnings (line the one a State Trooper gave me last Sunday on my way home from work for speeding) of you can give written warnings.  I've written several myself.  It justifies the action and shows a paper trail.  Otherwise, I'd just be stopping cars with hot women all day--on camera!



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marley on 27 July 2015
Hiku said:
AnthonyW86 said:

They are payed by taxes and that's why people need to COOPERATE and not waste an officers time. And the woman clearly has an attitude, that's why the officer asked her if there was a problem. And even while he just wanted to give her a warning she assumed she was getting fined.

Where do you get the idea that he was only going to give her a warning? I don't hear that anywhere in the footage. After he tells her to wait a few minutes while returning to his car (where he probably processed her information for the ticket) he returns to her car holding a notepad and a pen. I'm pretty sure you don't write out warnings. You give them verbally.

As for her attitude, look at it from her perspective. The cop started following her, and probably wanted her to pull over. So she did. And then she got a ticket for doing that. Improperly, but she probably feels like the whole thing was unnecesary. Being followed for what reason? Pulling over as they wanted her to, and then she was fined for doing so. If he was following her because of the stop sign, he should have told her this, but he didn't. She may not have noticed the stop sign, just like she wasn't aware that he had a right to tell her to get out of her car.

As for being paid by taxes, that's the point several people are mentioning here. They are paid by us, to help us. The police officer was not informative or helpful in this case. He caused her to pull over. He did not inform her of why they were following her in the first place. He let her frustration grow, and then he refused to answer questions, about why she was being arrested, or properly explain that he has the right to ask her to get out of the car for no reason, or that disobeying it leads to an arrest, etc.
And a lot of police officers, who are paid by us, waste our time, with nonsense pull overs. Me and my friends were pulled over one time for no reason, just so they could check all of our ID's. It took a while, then they let us go. We did not make it in time to our restaurant because of it.

 

Cops do give written warnings.  At 12 min into the uncut video he tells her that she was only getting a warning and then takes her over to the back of her car to show her the written warning that she would have received.  



whatever on 27 July 2015
KLAMarine said:
whatever said:

And for those saying she escalated things, get a f*%king clue.

Below is a transcript of the key part of the exchange.  Bland is completely calm and polite right up until the cop asks here to get out of the car, apparently (and unbelievably) because she asked why she had to put out her cigarrette.  When the officer says "Are you done?" like a condescending POS, it was obvious he was going to escalate the situation, which he did shortly afterwards.

(Encinia returns to his car for several minutes, then approaches Bland again.)

Encinia: OK, ma’am. (Pause.) You OK?

Bland: I’m waiting on you. This is your job. I’m waiting on you. When’re you going to let me go?

Encinia: I don’t know, you seem very really irritated.

Bland: I am. I really am. I feel like it’s crap what I’m getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesn’t stop you from giving me a ticket, so.

Encinia: Are you done?

Bland: You asked me what was wrong, now I told you.

Encinia: OK.

Bland: So now I’m done, yeah.

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don’t mind?

Bland: I’m in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

Don't pretend that Bland didn't play a role in escalating things, the officer wasn't alone.

I don't have to pretend, I can just watch the video.  Nothing Bland did up until he asked her to get out of the car was in any way an escalation.



AnthonyW86 on 27 July 2015
SvennoJ said:
AnthonyW86 said:
 

They are payed by taxes and that's why people need to COOPERATE and not waste an officers time. And the woman clearly has an attitude, that's why the officer asked her if there was a problem. And even while he just wanted to give her a warning she assumed she was getting fined.

 

Here in The Netherlands police are much softer, and in a lot of cases they can be. But they also can't do much against people bad mouthing and dissrespecting them. It has lead to a situation where more and more people have ZERO respect for the police and badmouth them whenever it suits them. Making their job harder.

Is that a new thing? I grew up in the Netherlands but haven't lived there since 2002. Growing up the police came to school to explain their jobs and basically befriend the new generation. Is that no longer done? I don't remember any disrespect from my generation, well except at soccer matches which seem to be an excuse for anarchy.

I do remember a case of someone dying in a police cell in Amsterdam which was a big issue. Once you incarcerate someone, you're responsible for their well being. Suicide or not, the police is still responsible for her death.

The police weren't soft either lol. I was at a demonstration in The Hague to do with education policies in 1993. Almost got hit by a ME van backing up at high speed.  Ah the good old days. Got to protect parliament from those dangerous 18 year olds.

That incident did lower respect for the police a lot.

It's gotten worse in recent years, especially in some regions. These days there are incidents on a weekly basis(though social media might make them more noticable to). Just recently a person got killed because of an harsh arrest(a neck hold that was held for to long). Then there were protests because they guy died but everyone seems to forget that he wasn't co-operating at all and that this is what happens when people keep pushing the limits and patience of officers. People get hurt unnecessarily.



KLAMarine on 27 July 2015
whatever said:

I don't have to pretend, I can just watch the video.  Nothing Bland did up until he asked her to get out of the car was in any way an escalation.

I would argue she escalated the situation moreso than the officer when she refused to follow orders. Apparently, when an officer asks you to exit your vehicle, you have to do it, no exception.

"As far as the law goes, there is no legal requirement. A police officer needs no reason to have a driver step out of the car. Under Federal law, this provision comes out of Pennsylvania vs. Mimms."

http://www.njlawman.com/roll-call/008-removing-driver.htm

"The U.S. Supreme Court decided many years ago, in a case called Pennsylvania v. Mimms, that an officer may order someone who he has stopped for a traffic violation to get out of the car.  Thus, you do not have a choice in the matter.  It does not matter that the weather is unpleasant or that the officer does not have a clear reason for asking you to get out.  When the officer asks you to “please step out of your car,”  you have to do it.  As mentioned in Part VIII of this series, these sorts of “requests” can be confusing.  A polite officer will often ask things like, “May I please see your license?  Would you please step out of your car?  Would you please pop your trunk?  Would you please open your glove-box so I can take a look?”  All of these sound like requests.  But the first two are orders which may not be refused while the last two are fully optional requests which may, and should, be refused.  The only way to tell the difference is to know your rights.  Thus, as the CORRECT and BEST answers recognize, you must get out of the car when the officer asks you to."

http://www.columbuscriminaldefenseattorney.com/2012/03/16/must-you-get-out-of-your-car-during-a-traffic-stop-police-interaction-part-ix/

I also want to add that even as Trooper Brian was winding down, Sandra continued with her profanity-laden tirade. All things considered, I can't help but side with the trooper when he's raising his voice to issue orders. Sandra raised her voice to spout foul words and insults.



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-CraZed- on 27 July 2015
AnthonyW86 said:
This guy explains it very well, though a little blund maybe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuQGqxnqfo
She wasn't compliant during the stop and kept on talking, and jumped to conclusions. She could have driven away with a warning.


Watched the entire video. Absolutely the smartest, most intelligent and thoughtful analysis of the situation. I say he is 100% correct. He was probably a little more gruff than he had to be but I'm guessing that's his usual style, having never watched one of his videos.



-CraZed- on 27 July 2015
RG3Hunna said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWUx3-b0F_Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU

This white man disrespects police officers all the time and he's alive to tell the story. If a black man tried to do this they would put 80 bullets in him and the cops would say they feared for their life. White people you have it good man and you don't even know how good you have it. LMAO

Tell that to this guy (he's a dirrtbag but still is apropos to the argument) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEmHI-Ndmc

Or this guy http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/10/us/california-san-bernardino-police-beating/

Your simplistic and blanket view of black v. white detracts for the argument and makes it harder for honest thoughtful people to weigh each case on it's merits. 

LMAO



whatever on 28 July 2015
KLAMarine said:
whatever said:

I don't have to pretend, I can just watch the video.  Nothing Bland did up until he asked her to get out of the car was in any way an escalation.

I would argue she escalated the situation moreso than the officer when she refused to follow orders. Apparently, when an officer asks you to exit your vehicle, you have to do it, no exception.

"As far as the law goes, there is no legal requirement. A police officer needs no reason to have a driver step out of the car. Under Federal law, this provision comes out of Pennsylvania vs. Mimms."

http://www.njlawman.com/roll-call/008-removing-driver.htm

"The U.S. Supreme Court decided many years ago, in a case called Pennsylvania v. Mimms, that an officer may order someone who he has stopped for a traffic violation to get out of the car.  Thus, you do not have a choice in the matter.  It does not matter that the weather is unpleasant or that the officer does not have a clear reason for asking you to get out.  When the officer asks you to “please step out of your car,”  you have to do it.  As mentioned in Part VIII of this series, these sorts of “requests” can be confusing.  A polite officer will often ask things like, “May I please see your license?  Would you please step out of your car?  Would you please pop your trunk?  Would you please open your glove-box so I can take a look?”  All of these sound like requests.  But the first two are orders which may not be refused while the last two are fully optional requests which may, and should, be refused.  The only way to tell the difference is to know your rights.  Thus, as the CORRECT and BEST answers recognize, you must get out of the car when the officer asks you to."

http://www.columbuscriminaldefenseattorney.com/2012/03/16/must-you-get-out-of-your-car-during-a-traffic-stop-police-interaction-part-ix/

I also want to add that even as Trooper Brian was winding down, Sandra continued with her profanity-laden tirade. All things considered, I can't help but side with the trooper when he's raising his voice to issue orders. Sandra raised her voice to spout foul words and insults.

That was why I said "Nothing Bland did up until he asked her to get out of the car was in any way an escalation."

There was no reason for the officer to ask her to get out of the car.  None.  It's bad policing, period.  He should at a minimum be fired.



KLAMarine on 28 July 2015
whatever said:

That was why I said "Nothing Bland did up until he asked her to get out of the car was in any way an escalation."

There was no reason for the officer to ask her to get out of the car.  None.  It's bad policing, period.  He should at a minimum be fired.

So may I ask you at what moments did Sandra play her role in escalating things further?



method114 on 28 July 2015
KLAMarine said:
whatever said:

That was why I said "Nothing Bland did up until he asked her to get out of the car was in any way an escalation."

There was no reason for the officer to ask her to get out of the car.  None.  It's bad policing, period.  He should at a minimum be fired.

So may I ask you at what moments did Sandra play her role in escalating things further?


I don't know his answer but I would assume it's when she didn't want to get out. I understand cops have the right to legally ask you to get out of the car. My problem is using the law to punish people further because they aren't doing the things you want them to do but have no legal right to force them to do. Cops are constatnly doing this and it's constantly causing issues like this and a ton more. If cops would stop taking things so personally and just do their damn job things would be so much better.