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Forums - Movies & TV - Who would win: Superman Vs Dr. Manhattan

 

Who wins?

Superman 20 16.81%
 
Doctor Manhattan 89 74.79%
 
Draw 2 1.68%
 
They kill each other 6 5.04%
 
DC wins 2 1.68%
 
Total:119
Teeqoz on 25 July 2015
AbbathTheGrim said:
Teeqoz said:

What I explained to you was that a black hole doesn't inherently need to have the mass of 5 suns. It just needs to have high enough density, aka if the mass is compressed enough. Like I said, the earth would be a black hole if compressed to the size of a marble. And the earth certainly doesn't have the mass of five suns.

It all comes down to the schwarzschild radius, which is how small the radius of an object of a certain mass would have to be to be a black hole. For the earth, it is about 0.9 centimetres. Black holes arise from density, not mass.

In a star, there are two forces working in opposite directions. gravity, pulling inwards, and electromagnetism (radiation) pushing outwards, from the core. When the "fuel" is used up, he forces pushing outwards (radiation) becomes smaller and smaller, so that the balance between gravity and electromagnetism is broken. Thus gravity pulls inwards, with no force going in the other direction, and that compresses the mass denser and denser, til it becomes a black hole. The only way this occurs naturally are when stars reach a certain mass, about 5 times that of the sun, but since he can manipulate matter, he can create a black hole of something with much less mass, say an orange, all he has to do is compress that orange a fucking lot, til it becomes so tiny it's density is that of a black hole. Or put another way, he has to shrink the orange to its scwarzschild radius. He doesn't need 5 times the mass of the sun.

Now, the orange would probably only amount to a black hole with the radius of something silly like 0.0001 nanometers, but it would still be a black hole...

More Mass = More Suck

Cosmic black holes are created after the collapse of a massive star. They are, by definition, massive. If something is massive, it has a strong gravitational field. Any planets, stars or space cows that stray too close will be sucked in, making the black hole more massive.

Micro-black holes are miniscule. They have next to no mass, exert a near-zero gravitational pull on matter, and therefore do not grow. In fact, they most likely do the opposite; they evaporate. Fast.

Even if they had the opportunity to grow, they would accrete matter so slowly that they still wouldn’t attain any measurable growth for billions and billions of years.

In a recent publication, a group of physicists decided to crunch the numbers on the likelihood of the LHC generating these vanishingly small micro-black holes, and they pretty much drew the same conclusions as CERN physicists have been saying for the last year. Any black hole generated at the LHC would pose zero threat to Earth.

http://news.discovery.com/space/the-lhc-black-hole-no-braner.htm


First of all, given that the black holes the article is talking about are those that could (theoretically) arise from the LHC, those come from a few particles smashing together. An orange has significantly more mass than a few particles, so it's not sure the same math would apply for a black hole a trillion of the size of what they are discussing in that article.

Second of all, I was just talking about creating a black hole, not necessarily one that would rip earth apart

Third of all, he still wouldn't need to create something with the mass of five suns. If he created a black hole with the mass of the moon, it would still completely rip superman apart. Even a black hole with the mass of Pluto (which has 0.0022 earth masses, or 1/500 of the mass of the earth) and it would still tear superman to shreds. I'm not sure where the limit would be for how small this black hole could be before it would no longer kill Superman, but it sure as hell wouldn't require the mass of five suns. He could take Phoebos (one of Mars' moons) and turn it into a black hole, and Phoebos has a 6 billionth of the mass of earth, or 0.00000000166 times the mass of the earth, and guess what? It'd still crush Superman.

That was what I was getting at, you don't need the mass of 5 times the sun.



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The_Sony_Girl1 on 25 July 2015

Superman survived a blackhole in Superman: Doomed, so this black hole arguement has no merit.



Bet with Xander XT: 

I can beat more games on his 3DS than he can on my PSVita in a month. Loser has to buy the winner a game on his/her handheld Guess who won? http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=193531

Me!

The Fury on 25 July 2015
deskpro2k3 said:

By the way guys, Dr. Manhattan cannot mess with Superman atoms. Superman has dealt with things like that before.

He cannot just see his neck and remove his head? Not sure you understand Dr Manhattan.

Superman is nowhere near the level of reality manipulators, whether you think he is or not. Reality manipulators can change the very nature of his being, if they wanted to give him blonde hair they could. If they wanted to remove that very special shield you think he has, they can. It's not a case of not being able to, it's a matter of how lond Supes can survive before they do it.... so 1 second if that. They don't work on the same level of Superman, he is restricted by the very laws of nature, they aren't.



Hmm, pie.

The_Sony_Girl1 on 25 July 2015
The Fury said:
deskpro2k3 said:

By the way guys, Dr. Manhattan cannot mess with Superman atoms. Superman has dealt with things like that before.

He cannot just see his neck and remove his head? Not sure you understand Dr Manhattan.

Superman is nowhere near the level of reality manipulators, whether you think he is or not. Reality manipulators can change the very nature of his being, if they wanted to give him blonde hair they could. If they wanted to remove that very special shield you think he has, they can. It's not a case of not being able to, it's a matter of how lond Supes can survive before they do it.... so 1 second if that. They don't work on the same level of Superman, he is restricted by the very laws of nature, they aren't.

Superman? Restricted by the laws of nature? Yeah right. Superman resisted being reality warped by Myx, who is far better at reality wapring than Doc Brooklyn.



Bet with Xander XT: 

I can beat more games on his 3DS than he can on my PSVita in a month. Loser has to buy the winner a game on his/her handheld Guess who won? http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=193531

Me!

ils411 on 25 July 2015
deskpro2k3 said:

I think you need this.

 

 

Thanks, i needed that T_T



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Wright on 25 July 2015

Dr. Manhattan. Superman was designed to be overpoweredly broken, but Alan Moore went to the extra mile with Dr. Manhattan, so there shouldn't be a discussion about it. Not even the greatest mind on the Earth could take Dr. Manhattan out.



ils411 on 25 July 2015

Here's a question, which of these would Superman be able to resist

1. Mater manipulation by the Silver Surfer and his power cosmic
2. Mater manipulation by molecular man
3. Mater manipulation by molecular man while being amped by Surfer
4. Mater manipulation by Thanos with the reality gem
5. Mater manipulation by Thanos with the cosmic cube
6. Mater manipulation by Eternity
7. Mater manipulation by Thanos with the infinity gauntlet
9. Mater manipulation by The Living Tribunal

way I see it, Dr. Manhattan's power's is along the levels of molecular man or the silver surfer.



The Fury on 25 July 2015
ils411 said:
Here's a question, which of these would Superman be able to resist

1. Mater manipulation by the Silver Surfer and his power cosmic
2. Mater manipulation by molecular man
3. Mater manipulation by molecular man while being amped by Surfer
4. Mater manipulation by Thanos with the reality gem
5. Mater manipulation by Thanos with the cosmic cube
6. Mater manipulation by Eternity
7. Mater manipulation by Thanos with the infinity gauntlet
9. Mater manipulation by The Living Tribunal

way I see it, Dr. Manhattan's power's is along the levels of molecular man or the silver surfer.

1) Silver Surfer relies on Galactus. I think Supes could stand against SS but not for long.

2,3,5,6,7,8 all no, Eternity and The Living Tribunal are cosmics gods of the highest level, there is only One Above Them. The recent events writen by Hickman are basically insults to the idea of them.

Supes couldn't stand against Jaspers. He'd do alright against Proteus though (limited by distance).



Hmm, pie.

globalisateur on 25 July 2015

There are several ways to skin a cat. In the movie Ozimandias basically outsmarted Dr Manhattan.

Technically I'd say Ozimandias won against Dr Manhattan even if it cost him billions of dollars of research to cloud his visions. At the end Dr Manhattan had no choice but leave the Earth.



deskpro2k3 on 25 July 2015
globalisateur said:
There are several ways to skin a cat. In the movie Ozimandias basically outsmarted Dr Manhattan.

Technically I'd say Ozimandias won against Dr Manhattan even if it cost him billions of dollars of research to cloud his visions. At the end Dr Manhattan had no choice but leave the Earth.


he left the galaxy lol