By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - More hints of AMD's Potential Partnership with Nintendo on the NX

bunchanumbers said:
I just hope its more powerful than the PS4. It needs to be if Nintendo wants it to have a longer life than Wii U. I wouldn't even mind if they killed BC for this generation. I'm not asking for a god box, but 3rd parties can't be put off by what Nintendo does with the hardware. It needs to be more powerful than PS4 and still be viable after PS5/X2 come out. At least until Nintendo releases their next machine after. That would be the best theoretical sweet spot.


PS4 power isn't going to happen. Nintendo will go for a mobile-centric chip that suits their handheld as priority no.1, then scale that up a bit for its console brother (assuming they even bother with two seperate devices rather than just having a portable that can stream to the TV). They will go for a unique/new kind of device, they've basically said as much. If you want a PS4 ... honestly just buy a PS4 or XB1. 



Around the Network
UncleScrooge said:
AMD sounds like the logical choice.

Being backwards compatible via Virtual Console should be no problem. The system will be powerful enough to emulate games up to Gamecube and most likely Wii. And Wii U backwards compatibility shouldn't be a central focus: the console failed and people ignored most games on it. They can still release Full HD compilations or remake some Wii U games for NX.

The bigger question is: Can AMD provide a great chipset for Nintendo's next handheld system? If so, both machines would be highly similar (the handheld being weaker of course) which would make multiplatform releases across Nintendo's systems easy and Virtual Console porting as well.

I don't think Nintendo's plan is to produce a "fusion" console, as that would satisfy neither market. Instead, they'll put extremely similar architectures into both consoles and let them run on the same account system. We will still get two versions of Mario Kart, but they'll share some tracks and assets and basically one version will run at 480p and the other at 1080p with added effects.


Saying "well just make two Mario Karts" isn't so simple. Assuming your expectation is a Mario Kart for handheld that's about Wii U level in power, and then another one that's on a PS4-ish level home console? 

Nintendo doesn't have the resources to make games like that anymore, they release droughts would be several times worse than they are with the Wii U/3DS where both Wii U and 3DS owners are constantly bitching about not having enough Nintendo games to play. 

Nintendo supporting two discreet platforms was a helluva lot different with the Wii and DS when development costs were much lower and the Wii was basically just recycled GameCube, so there was literally no hardware transition. We've seen this generation that equation fall apart and it would get worse with even more powerful hardware. 

And no, Nintendo is not going to increase their workforce by 2x-3x just so Western consumers can have the same games with better graphics. Nintendo values being a small company, that way they can ensure the culture of the company and its specific style of game development can stay intact. That would fall apart if they expanded to be a bloated company the size of EA or something. 

And to be fair to Nintendo no one can support two modern platforms like that anymore. Look at how much trouble Sony is having with the PS4 ... this will be their third holiday season in a row without a big internally published holiday season game, and they completely gave up on the Vita, imagine they actually had to support the Vita too. It would be a complete disaster, nothing would get released on time. 

If the architectures are too similar and they're basically just assets traded up and down, then consumers will (rightly) start to feel like they're being ripped off, like they're being asked to pay twice to get all the content from the same engine game. That won't go over well either. If the handheld that I own can run the same engine more or less, why should I pay another $200 + $50-$60 to play basically more tracks from the same engine on the TV version. I think consumers would get angry at that. 



Soundwave said:
bunchanumbers said:
I just hope its more powerful than the PS4. It needs to be if Nintendo wants it to have a longer life than Wii U. I wouldn't even mind if they killed BC for this generation. I'm not asking for a god box, but 3rd parties can't be put off by what Nintendo does with the hardware. It needs to be more powerful than PS4 and still be viable after PS5/X2 come out. At least until Nintendo releases their next machine after. That would be the best theoretical sweet spot.


PS4 power isn't going to happen. Nintendo will go for a mobile-centric chip that suits their handheld as priority no.1, then scale that up a bit for its console brother (assuming they even bother with two seperate devices rather than just having a portable that can stream to the TV). They will go for a unique/new kind of device, they've basically said as much. If you want a PS4 ... honestly just buy a PS4 or XB1. 


I don't want a PS4 or X1. I want NX to be viable so that 3rd party devs could port their games onto the system. That and it be strong enough so that 3rd party devs don't abandon it the instant that the next PS/XB launch like they did with Wii U. I'm not asking for a god box. But it does need to be viable for the entire life of the console, and not just until the launch of the twins again.



bunchanumbers said:
Soundwave said:


PS4 power isn't going to happen. Nintendo will go for a mobile-centric chip that suits their handheld as priority no.1, then scale that up a bit for its console brother (assuming they even bother with two seperate devices rather than just having a portable that can stream to the TV). They will go for a unique/new kind of device, they've basically said as much. If you want a PS4 ... honestly just buy a PS4 or XB1. 


I don't want a PS4 or X1. I want NX to be viable so that 3rd party devs could port their games onto the system. That and it be strong enough so that 3rd party devs don't abandon it the instant that the next PS/XB launch like they did with Wii U. I'm not asking for a god box. But it does need to be viable for the entire life of the console, and not just until the launch of the twins again.


Like I said if you want third party ports ... get a PS4 or X1. You're unlikely to be happy with the NX if that's what you're looking for. 

If you want Nintendo IP and probably a new type of controller along with the fusion idea of shared handheld + home game library and maybe some Japanese third party support, then NX will be up your alley. 



JEMC said:
Bofferbrauer said:
The only logical choice, imo. ARM has stark deficiencies when it comes to floating point operations, and hit a brick wall in cpu clocks at around 2.5 Ghz which takes long to pass. IBM, on the other hand, moved all the way into high power computing, which is basically the complete opposite of a gaming console (and probably already the reason why the Wii U had just a self-developed supercharged triplecore version of an over 10 year old chip installed). And if they go already to AMD to get their CPUs, why not getting the total package at once instead of looking for a company for every single part to deliver to them?

More interesting would be if Zen or no Zen (AMD next Generation Architecture, which should bring them again more or less on par with Intel in IPC and thus global performance) and which generation of GCN would be used.

As for Wii U emulation: Hard, but depending on the CPU/GPU not impossible.

I'd love for Nintendo to go with Zen, but that means Nintendo using new technology (with Zen being a 2016 product) and that would go against their usual approach with tech.

I find it more likely that they'll go with the low power Puma+ cores or, with a bit of luck, the new Excavator cores from AMD's Carrizo APU.

I don't think those would work well in a console. Puma/Puma+ (upgraded Jaguars which are in Xbox ONE/PS4, but consuming much less and can be clocked higher) sound more realistic to me. And IF there really will be a fusion concept with NX, there would be the possibility to use a very similar chip in an handheld using the very same architecture, just check the A 10 Micro 6700T.



Around the Network
Soundwave said:
bunchanumbers said:


I don't want a PS4 or X1. I want NX to be viable so that 3rd party devs could port their games onto the system. That and it be strong enough so that 3rd party devs don't abandon it the instant that the next PS/XB launch like they did with Wii U. I'm not asking for a god box. But it does need to be viable for the entire life of the console, and not just until the launch of the twins again.


Like I said if you want third party ports ... get a PS4 or X1. You're unlikely to be happy with the NX if that's what you're looking for. 

If you want Nintendo IP and probably a new type of controller along with the fusion idea of shared handheld + home game library and maybe some Japanese third party support, then NX will be up your alley. 

It can't be just Nintendo making games for the system. Wii U has already proven this. Nintendo needs AAA 3rd party support to be viable in the long run. It just can't be only Nintendo anymore. There would be no talk of droughts if Wii U if they had made their system around the area of the twins. I bet that if Nintendo did this, most people would be arguing that Wii U is the system to own this generation. If Nintendo does the same thing with NX then its pretty much DOA outside of the dedicated fanbase.



bunchanumbers said:
Soundwave said:
bunchanumbers said:


I don't want a PS4 or X1. I want NX to be viable so that 3rd party devs could port their games onto the system. That and it be strong enough so that 3rd party devs don't abandon it the instant that the next PS/XB launch like they did with Wii U. I'm not asking for a god box. But it does need to be viable for the entire life of the console, and not just until the launch of the twins again.


Like I said if you want third party ports ... get a PS4 or X1. You're unlikely to be happy with the NX if that's what you're looking for. 

If you want Nintendo IP and probably a new type of controller along with the fusion idea of shared handheld + home game library and maybe some Japanese third party support, then NX will be up your alley. 

It can't be just Nintendo making games for the system. Wii U has already proven this. Nintendo needs AAA 3rd party support to be viable in the long run. It just can't be only Nintendo anymore. There would be no talk of droughts if Wii U if they had made their system around the area of the twins. I bet that if Nintendo did this, most people would be arguing that Wii U is the system to own this generation. If Nintendo does the same thing with NX then its pretty much DOA outside of the dedicated fanbase.


Except Nintendo has had these types of games before with the GameCube and again early on with the Wii U and they sold a fraction of what they sold on the PS/XBox. Nintendo lost the audience for those types of games a long time ago and Sony/MS will never give them back as that is their bread & butter audience that they market to 24/7. 

At this point they're probably better off just trying something different. Nintendo's role in the industry has changed, their role now is to try and change up the status quo and be different. Sometimes it will work, sometimes not so much. That comes with taking the path less traveled. 

Besides honestly there's nothing wrong with embracing the family side of the market. The game industry is too obsessed with hyper-violent games, families should have a platform they can go to and play together. After all, pretty much everyone who is a Nintendo fan here became a fan when they were a kid. 



Bofferbrauer said:
JEMC said:
Bofferbrauer said:
The only logical choice, imo. ARM has stark deficiencies when it comes to floating point operations, and hit a brick wall in cpu clocks at around 2.5 Ghz which takes long to pass. IBM, on the other hand, moved all the way into high power computing, which is basically the complete opposite of a gaming console (and probably already the reason why the Wii U had just a self-developed supercharged triplecore version of an over 10 year old chip installed). And if they go already to AMD to get their CPUs, why not getting the total package at once instead of looking for a company for every single part to deliver to them?

More interesting would be if Zen or no Zen (AMD next Generation Architecture, which should bring them again more or less on par with Intel in IPC and thus global performance) and which generation of GCN would be used.

As for Wii U emulation: Hard, but depending on the CPU/GPU not impossible.

I'd love for Nintendo to go with Zen, but that means Nintendo using new technology (with Zen being a 2016 product) and that would go against their usual approach with tech.

I find it more likely that they'll go with the low power Puma+ cores or, with a bit of luck, the new Excavator cores from AMD's Carrizo APU.

I don't think those would work well in a console. Puma/Puma+ (upgraded Jaguars which are in Xbox ONE/PS4, but consuming much less and can be clocked higher) sound more realistic to me. And IF there really will be a fusion concept with NX, there would be the possibility to use a very similar chip in an handheld using the very same architecture, just check the A 10 Micro 6700T.

That's a good little chip for 4.5-5W and, if they disable the Turbo mode (lowering the TDP to something like 2.5-3W) , it could work great in a handheld.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

People are forgetting AMD has a license from ARM to both use ARM designs and custom designs that are compatible with the ARM instruction set. An ARM/Radeon powered APU would allow commonality between the 3DS and NX which Nintendo will need if want to support both platforms (ala the whole fusion concept) without the droughts of this gen. X86 is still struggling to scale down to handheld level, yes Intel has some in a few phones but we aren't talking Intel with their 14nm Finfet process. A high end 8 core A72 based ARM for NX and an 2-4 core A53 core for 3DS successor would allow common code base to target both platforms, and still provide a massive performance increase over the current processors in 3DS (which is extremely slow by today's phone standards) and Wii U (a tri-core G3-level PowerPC).

Nintendo could also go Nvidia if they want ARM, but given Nintendo have used AMD for the past three home consoles (Gamecube used an ArtX GPU just as AMD bought them), it would make more sense for Nintendo to continue the relationship with AMD.



If they can get purely software based (i.e. what the X1 is doing) backwards compatibility, it shouldn't hold the NX's own games back.



PS, PS2, Gameboy Advance, PS3, PSP, PS4, Xbox One