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Forums - Sony - The Order 1886 not a huge flop?

z101 said:
Whether bloodborne, order or sunset sales are good. At least from the publishers perspective. Probably all of them make a huge loss.

On the other hand there is a game like Splatoon, has sold more than a million and break even already.

This gen needs more middle budget games.


Did Splatoon break even on production budget or marketing budget? Nintendo probably spent $50M marketing it.



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DerNebel said:
Michelasso said:


Definetely not a critical flop. Half of the reviews gave the game a 70 or more. The game reception has been polarized. Also more than a million sales is good. I believe Sony expected more but they must be crazy not asking for a sequel. RAD just has to fix what some didn't like, starting from the actual gameplay lenght.

If you think for one second that Sony is not considering this game a critical and commercial flop then I don't know what to tell you.

And only a million for this game after how long it has been out is horrible, Sony probably expected the game to have sold several million at this point.

Sony not asking for a sequel is in no way crazy, have you paid any attention to the backlash this game has gotten? The Order IP has a horrible reputation at this point and it would take more than just fixing "what some didn't like" (which is a horrible understatement of what is wrong with the game btw) to change that.

Some critics can suck my socks. The average went down because there are morons that gave the game even a 2/10. It wasn't a 10 either but indeed it didn't get any. Many people in the Internet say they loved the game. But the general consensus is that it was too short, which is indeed a crime for a fully priced game and one of the reasons why it dropped in price. When a game is too short with little replay value it soon floods the used games shelves making harder to sell the game brand new. It happened for other reasons with Skyrim for PS3 (it was broken), which I bought brand new in Amazon for less than half the price just after a couple of months.

And that brings the question about the naivety in RAD. They could simply add a NG+ with an harder mode (and skippable cutscenes for people who hates them) with trophies, like there is in Dead Space which is not much longer and the value of the game would have raised at a little cost. Not to mention that no one could get a Platinum trophy in few hours as it was all over before the game was even on sale.

About the sequel it could be like with Assassin's Creed. The first game was good, but far too many elements were just annoying. AC2, which fixed many of the mistakes in the first game, in comparison has been a Master Piece and recived as such. Also RAD has the engine ready now. It would even cost less to make a better game.



Michelasso said:

About the sequel it could be like with Assassin's Creed. The first game was good, but far too many elements were just annoying. AC2, which fixed many of the mistakes in the first game, in comparison has been a Master Piece and recived as such. Also RAD has the engine ready now. It would even cost less to make a better game.

Not the first time I see comparisons to AC, but these two games are nowhere close to each other. 

1.) AC actually sold very well. Much much better than TO.

2.) AC was well received critically, almost 20 points above TO.

3.) AC did have a lot of cinematics, but it also had a lot of gameplay...some of which was quite innovative at the time. TO has almost no gameplay and certainly nothing innovative in it.

4.) AC actually had a novel and compelling story (that fell apart in later installments, but part one was a really interesting setup). TO has a derivative and meandering story reminiscent of 1990s Will Smith blockbusters.

Those, and many other reasons are why AC is a 70+ million selling franchise, while The Order is barely a million selling dud which doesn't deserve a sequel....heck, it barely deserves a DLC.



Burek said:
Michelasso said:

About the sequel it could be like with Assassin's Creed. The first game was good, but far too many elements were just annoying. AC2, which fixed many of the mistakes in the first game, in comparison has been a Master Piece and recived as such. Also RAD has the engine ready now. It would even cost less to make a better game.

Not the first time I see comparisons to AC, but these two games are nowhere close to each other. 

1.) AC actually sold very well. Much much better than TO.

2.) AC was well received critically, almost 20 points above TO.

3.) AC did have a lot of cinematics, but it also had a lot of gameplay...some of which was quite innovative at the time. TO has almost no gameplay and certainly nothing innovative in it.

4.) AC actually had a novel and compelling story (that fell apart in later installments, but part one was a really interesting setup). TO has a derivative and meandering story reminiscent of 1990s Will Smith blockbusters.

Those, and many other reasons are why AC is a 70+ million selling franchise, while The Order is barely a million selling dud which doesn't deserve a sequel....heck, it barely deserves a DLC.


All of what you said have nothing to do with the idea he shared... 

The point he made was that the first Order 1996, just like the first AC, regardless of the scores and sales, are two very flawed games. AC2 built upon what was good in the first game, and improved and corrected everything else to make a much better experience. If the Order 1886 gets a sequel, he's saying that it might do the same as AC2 and become a much better game. 



Hynad said:
Burek said:

Not the first time I see comparisons to AC, but these two games are nowhere close to each other. 

1.) AC actually sold very well. Much much better than TO.

2.) AC was well received critically, almost 20 points above TO.

3.) AC did have a lot of cinematics, but it also had a lot of gameplay...some of which was quite innovative at the time. TO has almost no gameplay and certainly nothing innovative in it.

4.) AC actually had a novel and compelling story (that fell apart in later installments, but part one was a really interesting setup). TO has a derivative and meandering story reminiscent of 1990s Will Smith blockbusters.

Those, and many other reasons are why AC is a 70+ million selling franchise, while The Order is barely a million selling dud which doesn't deserve a sequel....heck, it barely deserves a DLC.


All of what you said have nothing to do with the idea he shared... 

The point he made was that the first Order 1996, just like the first AC, regardless of the scores and sales, are two very flawed games. AC2 built upon what was good in the first game, and improved and corrected everything else to make a much better experience. If the Order 1886 gets a sequel, he's saying that it might do the same as AC2 and become a much better game. 

I was commenting on his idea of a sequel, and pointing out the reasons why AC got a sequel, and why TO never will.



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Burek said:
Dr.Vita said:


Sony owns the IP and not Ready at Dawn. There could be a sequel in the future, but not from Ready at Dawn.

Why would they even consider it after this failure? It's not like this IP has any goodwill left. They woukd be just better off creating a brand new TPS from scratch, without any of The Order's baggage.

That's not true at all. Lots and lots of people, including many critics who gave the game a middling score, said they wanted to see a sequel, as long as some things got fixed and improved. They liked the world the game built, they liked the characters, they liked the narrative and of course they liked the visuals, and the shooting combat fundamentals and weapon creativity was liked. It would be a big shame if Sony thought there was no goodwill, and they decided not to commission a sequel partly on the basis of that mis-perception.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

I think that sales could've been higher had the reviews been there. After all, The Order cracked the NPD back in February.



Burek said:
Hynad said:


All of what you said have nothing to do with the idea he shared... 

The point he made was that the first Order 1996, just like the first AC, regardless of the scores and sales, are two very flawed games. AC2 built upon what was good in the first game, and improved and corrected everything else to make a much better experience. If the Order 1886 gets a sequel, he's saying that it might do the same as AC2 and become a much better game.

I was commenting on his idea of a sequel, and pointing out the reasons why AC got a sequel, and why TO never will.

You can't know this.

I remember seeing an interview of RAD speaking about a sequel with multiplayer, with their engine ready (that took them the major part of their time on TO 1886) they can now focus only on the game. However I don't say there will be one for sure, maybe things have changed since.

Sorry, but I have no source to provide for this interview currently.



Lauster said:

You can't know this.

I remember seeing an interview of RAD speaking about a sequel with multiplayer, with their engine ready (that took them the major part of their time on TO 1886) they can now focus only on the game. However I don't say there will be one for sure, maybe things have changed since.

Sorry, but I have no source to provide for this interview currently.

Of course I cannot know it, but I highly doubt anyone sane at Sony would greenlight part two after this debacle. 

I think that, if RAD ever wants to continue the story, they would be better off just making a SyFy channel movie.