Forums - Politics Discussion - Greece votes no (referendum).

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All I can say is, good luck... 103 50.74%
 
This is the beginning of the end for the Euro 31 15.27%
 
Maybe greece should merge... 13 6.40%
 
FUCK YOU GERMANY YOU PIEC... 56 27.59%
 
Total:203
Player2 said:
WC4Life said:
bonzobanana said:

Crap, here in the UK we are third in the list of creditors to Greece but at least the government exposure is low so won't end up on taxpayer's shoulders plus HSBC while UK based is really a hong kong/chinese bank. A huge burden for German taxpayers though.


 



I guess at least cheap Greek holidays for a few years.

You know what's bullshit? This whole act has been to support UK, GER, FRA banks. A lot of taxpayers have taken direct hit in other countries because of that. GER, FRA and UK taxpayers should be fucking thankful the rest of Europe payed what Greece alone could have never done.

German banks have bought a ton of portuguese, greek and spanish debt. I wonder if anyone knows why?


To keep the EU political and currency union going I guess while they were pushing Greece etc to kerb their spending and stop increasing their debt.

I don't see why Germany, France, UK etc should be criticised for this. Greek politicians just kept spending money they never had and now they are basically saying to those who lent them money its their fault. It's all a bit wierd. Greece lived beyond their means basically although I'm not saying the euro didn't have a massive negative effect on Greece. However it was Greece that chose to join the Euro so again their decision. 

I feel sorry for the french and german tax payers who basically will have to pay for Greece defaulting. I'm sure it won't be great for Greece either in the short term but at least they wipe the slate clean.

What is more worrying is how this is handled. It's not in Europe's interest to see Greece do well out of defaulting because then other countries may do the same. It needs to be seen that defaulting was the wrong decision so I wonder how Europe will achieve this. Maybe make exports from Greece difficult, push to make their currency as low value as possible. So that both imports are expensive and exports are more complicated. I can see the standard of living in Greece dropping like a stone.



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Ruler said:
OdinHades said:
Yeah, the Grexit should come any moment now. I think it's the right thing to do though. There's no way in hell Greece will ever pay back all the money from the IWF, and that's not the only one they need to pay. They just have to start from 0 and work their way up. It's going to be tough, but it can work out. I just hope they don't get victims of massive corruption again.

But that's it with any help from the EU. Which is good at this point. I don't see why my children should pay for Greece's failure. I mean, you have other countries like Ireland, Portugal and Spain which also had problems. But they got their shit together with the help from EU. Greece didn't and that's their own fault.


Nope Italy still struggles and France get a free pass all the time without any reforms

Not to mention Ireland, Portugal and Spain had half as much austerity as Greece did.

And speaking of free passes, Germany was the first country to have violated the deficit rules back in 2008 if I recall correctly, free pass. And why exactly is Germany allowed to have such a huge trade surplus? That's against EU rules as well. 



padib said:
Ka-pi96 said:
padib said:
How could 61% be enough to make such a severe decision for the country?

Well you either go with the 61%, or you ignore them and go with the 39%. One of those percentages is much larger than the other.

Or, option 3, you don't use a referendum to decide this kind of thing if possible. Are the common folk even in a position to judge on this kind of thing? You need experts for these matters.

Politicians there didn't want to make the hard call so they allowed their people to do it themselves, It was very cowardly imo.



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routsounmanman said:
Ruler said:


Nope Italy still struggles and France get a free pass all the time without any reforms

Not to mention Ireland, Portugal and Spain had half as much austerity as Greece did.

And speaking of free passes, Germany was the first country to have violated the deficit rules back in 2008 if I recall correctly, free pass. And why exactly is Germany allowed to have such a huge trade surplus? That's against EU rules as well. 


Most of that is now with other countries



routsounmanman said:
Ruler said:


Nope Italy still struggles and France get a free pass all the time without any reforms

Not to mention Ireland, Portugal and Spain had half as much austerity as Greece did.

And speaking of free passes, Germany was the first country to have violated the deficit rules back in 2008 if I recall correctly, free pass. And why exactly is Germany allowed to have such a huge trade surplus? That's against EU rules as well. 

That trade surplus is probably what they used to pay for all these loans but lets not forget Germany has a huge national debt of its own. Greece defaulting on its debt is only going to increase their national debt when its realised they won't be getting that back. That will take them well over 2 trillion of debt in euro's. That's then more interest the Germans have to pay because of Greece defaulting, more cut backs in Germany. This ain't going to do down well.

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/germany

France is already in a much worse position than Germany too;

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/france

and they will lose far more with a Greek default.



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Way to commit economic suicide. At least sexy time is free, Greece being most sexually active nation and all.



bonzobanana said:


To keep the EU political and currency union going I guess while they were pushing Greece etc to kerb their spending and stop increasing their debt.

I don't see why Germany, France, UK etc should be criticised for this. Greek politicians just kept spending money they never had and now they are basically saying to those who lent them money its their fault. It's all a bit wierd. Greece lived beyond their means basically although I'm not saying the euro didn't have a massive negative effect on Greece. However it was Greece that chose to join the Euro so again their decision. 

I feel sorry for the french and german tax payers who basically will have to pay for Greece defaulting. I'm sure it won't be great for Greece either in the short term but at least they wipe the slate clean.

What is more worrying is how this is handled. It's not in Europe's interest to see Greece do well out of defaulting because then other countries may do the same. It needs to be seen that defaulting was the wrong decision so I wonder how Europe will achieve this. Maybe make exports from Greece difficult, push to make their currency as low value as possible. So that both imports are expensive and exports are more complicated. I can see the standard of living in Greece dropping like a stone.


Yes, to keep political and currency union going which exist only to benefit these big countries and their own interests. If someone keeps lending more and more money even knowing someone won't pay it is straight up their own fault. But in this case, hey let's ask all the "smaller" countries to help Greece so the "big" countries can get at least some of their money back. "Smaller" countries only have only lost in this Greece episode while "big" countries gained. That's what EU is for all of us.

 

Why is it not in Europe's interest to see Greece do well after defaulting? What if defaulting is right choice for other countries too? How come the right decision must be painted as the wrong one? Again, because it does not work towards the interests of these "big" countries. At this point, I think the existence of EU itself is the biggest problem for Europe.



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ganoncrotch said:
padib said:
Ka-pi96 said:
padib said:
How could 61% be enough to make such a severe decision for the country?

Well you either go with the 61%, or you ignore them and go with the 39%. One of those percentages is much larger than the other.

Or, option 3, you don't use a referendum to decide this kind of thing if possible. Are the common folk even in a position to judge on this kind of thing? You need experts for these matters.

Politicians there didn't want to make the hard call so they allowed their people to do it themselves, It was very cowardly imo.

It's even worse then that. They tricked them in doing it. No was almost quaranteed. Afterwards, they will say just it was democracy since they let the people chose for a plan which didn't even exist anymore.

In any case, this is what the Greek voters deserve. We all get what we vote for here in Europe :(.



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The media in EU is probably high-fiving each other right now. Propaganda at its finest. It's all Greece's fault, let them sink.

I had higher hopes :/



Faxanadu said:
I still dont understand the hate of Germany in this. Greek people dont realize it was their own country?

Because that's how media works. If you watch and read the wrong stuff, you get a wrong idea of what went wrong.

Still, they chose the best option imo. They will never be able to pay that much money back... :/



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