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Forums - Nintendo - A way to make third party games sucsessful on wii u?

marley said:

Why should that matter?  You're the one claiming that people are purchasing games solely based on whether they are cartoony or realistic.  People don't know enough to care whether a game is made by Nintendo, but they know enough to determine if a game is AAA or not?  Was Batman Arkham even marketed as a Wiiu game?  I'm asking because I have never seen a single advert...

Lego Batman 3 release in 2014 on PS3 and PS4.  The userbase is split.  An apt comparison:
PS3 - 490k
PS4 - 620k
WiiU - 260k

Great job moving that cartoony game!  Perhaps 3rd parties should waste time/money making all of their games cartoony for those huge Wiiu sales.  

The Wii sold cartoony games at least on par with the Wiiu (better really).  It sold less 'cartoony' zelda than 'realistic' zelda.  I know this doesn't fit your preconceived notions of Nintendo gamers, so just downplay it.  Just like you downplay anyone else that brings real information and valid points into this thread.

SOME cartoony games are doing awesome on Wiiu.  Which games?  Nintendo games.  There are already cartoony 3rd party games on Wiiu and they are not 'doing awesome'. 

Cartoony games that are doing well on WiiU are very famous or well marketed Nintendo franchises selling to Nintendo fans.  It's NOT simply because they are cartoony.  Correlation does not imply causation.    


AAA games got way more marketing and are just "bigger" because they are AAA games. Thats why they are selling better.

 

Arkam Knight will probl sell 5x as many copies on ps4 as lego batmen 3, but batman arkahn city sold about the same on wii u as lego batman 3. So cartoony games are selling alot better on wii u as realistic looking ones, you just need to keep the relation on other plattforms in mind.

Nintendo is the only publisher who really makes big aaa cartoony games on the wii u at the moment.

 

Smash sold 3,35 mio copies and is made by bandai namco. Splatoon doesnt have anything nintendo related and still is selling good. Its not "nintendo" games that are selling good.

Also not EVERY single cartoony game does sell awesome. That shouldnt be a suprise. But they sell ALOT better then equivalent realistic looking games. And lego batman and arkham city arnt equivalent games.

Lego batman 3  on wii u doesnt even have a metascore so irrelevant is it. It has 73/100 metascore for playstation, arkham city does have 96/100 for playstation. And still they sold about the same numbers, and you take this as a "proove" that realistic games doest sell as good as cartoony on wii u? Really? are you serious?

 

Equivalent games are like:

need for speed most wanted U (200k) and sonic all star racing transformder (460k).

NFS is even a bigger name as sonic in terms of racing games and the nfs port was made better then the sonic port (better framerate, pc textures, pc port) and still sold 40% of the realistic looking "counterpart":

 

Comparison to other plattforms:

PS3:

sonic racing: 490k

Need for Speed most wanted: 2,75 mio

 

So yes, different from othr plattforms cartoony wii u games selling alot better then equivalent realistic looking games. On ps/xbox its exact other way around.



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Pavolink said:
To be succesful, they need an installbase willing to buy third parties. To do that, Nintendo needs to release games that could caters to that userbase. For example, the Twilight Princess userbase is more probable to buy Assassin's Creed than the 3DWorld userbase.


But i own 3d world, twilight princess and assassin creed iv so..... Point is I just buy games that are good. 



Nogamez said:
Pavolink said:
To be succesful, they need an installbase willing to buy third parties. To do that, Nintendo needs to release games that could caters to that userbase. For example, the Twilight Princess userbase is more probable to buy Assassin's Creed than the 3DWorld userbase.


But i own 3d world, twilight princess and assassin creed iv so..... Point is I just buy games that are good. 


yeah i do too.

I think many people that hate the idea are just misunderstanding the topic. 

This is not a topic; "DO you like cartoony or realistic looking games more" what many people think. Here on the forum most users (and wii u owners) are mature and may dont like cartoony looking games that much, But this forum is not representativ for the wii u userbase. Nintendos marketing is aiming at children only (see their advertisments). They didnt even showed games like fatal frame v or devils third in their e3 direct. Thats the reason the majority of wii u owners are childrens (marketing = sales) and only a few mature people are on wii u. And that explains the bad sales for all the games that aim at a teenager/mature audience (realstic graphics, rated m).

I dont want people to tell me if they like cell shading graphics or not (i do like both, i dont need assassins creed in cell shading). I want to know if they think it would help the titles in terms of sales. But unfortunaly many people wont answererd really to that question or even think about it from a neutral perspective, they just try to defend realistic looking games on wii u (because they do like them more).



No!!! Cell shading graphic would destroy games like Assassin's Creed 4...



Dr.Vita said:
No!!! Cell shading graphic would destroy games like Assassin's Creed 4...


Again: this topic is not about if you like or dont like cell shading graphics...



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JNK said:

The majority of people are casual gamers, children etc (special on wiiu). They dont care about the developer or publisher of a game. 

Did you cared about the game developers as you were like 10-14 years old? I doubt that. 

Demographic studies suggest that most of the Wii U's audience is males in their middle 20-30s.

Nintendo gamers are very discerning in terms of quality, but also supportive of developers that try new and interesting things. Mario, Link, and Samus, are characters that lure us in out of nostalgia, but aren't pre-requisites for buying a game. It's more about the perception that a lot of time, effort, and thought was put into the product we are buying. This may be the reason that many of us don't play a great deal of multiplats, even on our PS4s and XBOs. We are an audience used to being given a singular product that has been meticulously polished for one partcular console. All of my Wii U games are exclusives, and most of my PS4 games are as well. 



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JNK said:


AAA games got way more marketing and are just "bigger" because they are AAA games. Thats why they are selling better.

 

Arkam Knight will probl sell 5x as many copies on ps4 as lego batmen 3, but batman arkahn city sold about the same on wii u as lego batman 3. So cartoony games are selling alot better on wii u as realistic looking ones, you just need to keep the relation on other plattforms in mind.

Nintendo is the only publisher who really makes big aaa cartoony games on the wii u at the moment.

 

Smash sold 3,35 mio copies and is made by bandai namco. Splatoon doesnt have anything nintendo related and still is selling good. Its not "nintendo" games that are selling good.

Also not EVERY single cartoony game does sell awesome. That shouldnt be a suprise. But they sell ALOT better then equivalent realistic looking games. And lego batman and arkham city arnt equivalent games.

Lego batman 3  on wii u doesnt even have a metascore so irrelevant is it. It has 73/100 metascore for playstation, arkham city does have 96/100 for playstation. And still they sold about the same numbers, and you take this as a "proove" that realistic games doest sell as good as cartoony on wii u? Really? are you serious?

 

Equivalent games are like:

need for speed most wanted U (200k) and sonic all star racing transformder (460k).

NFS is even a bigger name as sonic in terms of racing games and the nfs port was made better then the sonic port (better framerate, pc textures, pc port) and still sold 40% of the realistic looking "counterpart":

 

Comparison to other plattforms:

PS3:

sonic racing: 490k

Need for Speed most wanted: 2,75 mio

 

So yes, different from othr plattforms cartoony wii u games selling alot better then equivalent realistic looking games. On ps/xbox its exact other way around.


You say that consumers are not informed enough to know which games are made by Nintendo.   Then you say that consumers are informed enough to base purchases on metascores.  That is illogical.  

Sonic is a much larger franchise on Nintendo consoles than it is elsewhere.  Need for speed is a much larger franchise elsewhere than it is on Nintendo consoles. That is why they sell the way they do.  There is nothing more to it.  

You are basing your arguments in faulty assumptions where correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other.  Making AC4 cell shaded will not make it anything like a Nintendo game nor will it make it sell on par in Nintendo's ecosystem.  To assume otherwise is to believe that Nintendo games ONLY sell well because they are cartoony.

Rayman Legends, Numerous Lego games, Epic Mickey, Skylanders, Just Dance - How many underperforming cartoony 3rd party examples do you need?  They all have at least decent metacritic scores and strong brand recognition.    Rayman Legends has a metascore of 92 - Skylanders Swap Force has an 89 - Better than or equal to Nintendo's top 10 WiiU games.  Based on your logic they should have sold 4 million by now, yet they languish far being in sales.   The top 20 WiiU games are dominated by Nintendo and it's not simply because they are cartoony.  

 



I guess they need to make their console the best one on the market with the best version as well? Good marketing would help also.



 

              

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Ryng_Tolu said:
Marketing. That's all...

Yeah, pretty much.



"Just for comparison Uncharted 4 was 20x bigger than Splatoon 2. This shows the huge difference between Sony's first-party games and Nintendo's first-party games."

marley said:
JNK said:


AAA games got way more marketing and are just "bigger" because they are AAA games. Thats why they are selling better.

 

Arkam Knight will probl sell 5x as many copies on ps4 as lego batmen 3, but batman arkahn city sold about the same on wii u as lego batman 3. So cartoony games are selling alot better on wii u as realistic looking ones, you just need to keep the relation on other plattforms in mind.

Nintendo is the only publisher who really makes big aaa cartoony games on the wii u at the moment.

 

Smash sold 3,35 mio copies and is made by bandai namco. Splatoon doesnt have anything nintendo related and still is selling good. Its not "nintendo" games that are selling good.

Also not EVERY single cartoony game does sell awesome. That shouldnt be a suprise. But they sell ALOT better then equivalent realistic looking games. And lego batman and arkham city arnt equivalent games.

Lego batman 3  on wii u doesnt even have a metascore so irrelevant is it. It has 73/100 metascore for playstation, arkham city does have 96/100 for playstation. And still they sold about the same numbers, and you take this as a "proove" that realistic games doest sell as good as cartoony on wii u? Really? are you serious?

 

Equivalent games are like:

need for speed most wanted U (200k) and sonic all star racing transformder (460k).

NFS is even a bigger name as sonic in terms of racing games and the nfs port was made better then the sonic port (better framerate, pc textures, pc port) and still sold 40% of the realistic looking "counterpart":

 

Comparison to other plattforms:

PS3:

sonic racing: 490k

Need for Speed most wanted: 2,75 mio

 

So yes, different from othr plattforms cartoony wii u games selling alot better then equivalent realistic looking games. On ps/xbox its exact other way around.


You say that consumers are not informed enough to know which games are made by Nintendo.   Then you say that consumers are informed enough to base purchases on metascores.  That is illogical.  

Sonic is a much larger franchise on Nintendo consoles than it is elsewhere.  Need for speed is a much larger franchise elsewhere than it is on Nintendo consoles. That is why they sell the way they do.  There is nothing more to it.  

You are basing your arguments in faulty assumptions where correlation between two variables implies that one causes the other.  Making AC4 cell shaded will not make it anything like a Nintendo game nor will it make it sell on par in Nintendo's ecosystem.  To assume otherwise is to believe that Nintendo games ONLY sell well because they are cartoony.

Rayman Legends, Numerous Lego games, Epic Mickey, Skylanders, Just Dance - How many underperforming cartoony 3rd party examples do you need?  They all have at least decent metacritic scores and strong brand recognition.    Rayman Legends has a metascore of 92 - Skylanders Swap Force has an 89 - Better than or equal to Nintendo's top 10 WiiU games.  Based on your logic they should have sold 4 million by now, yet they languish far being in sales.   The top 20 WiiU games are dominated by Nintendo and it's not simply because they are cartoony.  

 

rayman legends sold as good as on other consoles on wii u. Its was not like 0,3-7 mio (cod).

Rayman legends was a 2d plattformer which is in general a very unattractive genre at all and on wii u it got alot competition (mario, donkey kong).

 

You dont get it. Cartoony games can sell alot better on wii u even if some cartoony games doesnt sell good.

On Ps4 realisitc games sell alot better then cartoony, but there are also alot realsitic games that do sell bad.

Its not that a cartoony game no matter what kind will sell 3 mill on wii u. I never said that.

What you do is like saying:

Ps4 Sales:

Borderlands: 0,15m

Resident Evil Rev2; 0,17m

Lords of the fallen: 0,35m

 

Realistic/rated m games doesnt sell on ps4.

 

that just wrong and really, anybody knows that. Almost every AAA ps4 title got realisitc graphics and is rated m. Thats because the ps4 audience want those games. Because of the large installed hw base, cartoony games like ratchet and clank and kingdom hearts 3 will do "ok" too on ps4, but they will never reach cod/Gta numbers.

 

Sorry but thats bs. Alot game with cartoony graphics sold in relation to realisitc games and in relation to ps4/xbox one sales very good. Thats a fact you can even check on this side.

NONE game with realistic graphics did ever sell good on wii u. Its a FACT too. Thats why companies dont port those games anymore.

A cartoony looking new ip like Spaltoon will outsell a new realistic rated m ip like devils third by alot. you will see it.

 

Games like Bayo2 are PUBLISHED by Nintendo and sell bad. You will see that Starfox will sell ALOT better.