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Forums - Nintendo - A way to make third party games sucsessful on wii u?

JNK said:
ArchangelMadzz said:
Re texturing games so everything looks cartoony? Oh dear god.


yes. realistic looking games will not and will never sell on wiiu. People who want realistic looking games dont get a wii u as their main console. Thats makes no sense. They get the system because games like Mario 3d Wörld, Mario Kart 8, Smash, Splatoon and co. 

If Nintendo manages to sell a game like Splatoon (complete new IP) that good on wii u, every third party publisher could do it. They just need to fit the demands of the wii u´s audience. And this audience dont want realistic looking rated m games.


That's not going to happen.

"Hey guys you know that console you used to make games for and they sold horribly?" 
"Yeah...."
"Well why don't you completely re texture the game I'm sure it'll be super cheap to do (hehe not) and then put them out?"



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ArchangelMadzz said:
JNK said:


yes. realistic looking games will not and will never sell on wiiu. People who want realistic looking games dont get a wii u as their main console. Thats makes no sense. They get the system because games like Mario 3d Wörld, Mario Kart 8, Smash, Splatoon and co. 

If Nintendo manages to sell a game like Splatoon (complete new IP) that good on wii u, every third party publisher could do it. They just need to fit the demands of the wii u´s audience. And this audience dont want realistic looking rated m games.


That's not going to happen.

"Hey guys you know that console you used to make games for and they sold horribly?" 
"Yeah...."
"Well why don't you completely re texture the game I'm sure it'll be super cheap to do (hehe not) and then put them out?"


There are cell shading textures packs for ALOT games (many can be found in this thread scince this got already discusses) which are made by modders as a hobby. A texture pack isnt to difficult to make, specially a cell shading one (easy and simple textures). If the sales will increase and they are able to sell their games at a "nintendo level", so like 2-3 mio sales for a assasssins creed game, it would 100% worth the work.



JNK said:
ArchangelMadzz said:


That's not going to happen.

"Hey guys you know that console you used to make games for and they sold horribly?" 
"Yeah...."
"Well why don't you completely re texture the game I'm sure it'll be super cheap to do (hehe not) and then put them out?"


There are cell shading textures packs for ALOT games (many can be found in this thread scince this got already discusses) which are made by modders as a hobby. A texture pack isnt to difficult to make, specially a cell shading one (easy and simple textures). If the sales will increase and they are able to sell their games at a "nintendo level", so like 2-3 mio sales for a assasssins creed game, it would 100% worth the work.

2-3 million? So you don't think it'll double or triple it'll increase tenfold?



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

ArchangelMadzz said:
JNK said:


There are cell shading textures packs for ALOT games (many can be found in this thread scince this got already discusses) which are made by modders as a hobby. A texture pack isnt to difficult to make, specially a cell shading one (easy and simple textures). If the sales will increase and they are able to sell their games at a "nintendo level", so like 2-3 mio sales for a assasssins creed game, it would 100% worth the work.

2-3 million? So you don't think it'll double or triple it'll increase tenfold?


why shouldnt they? All triple A cartoony games sold in that range on wii u.

Im also very sure that the game "yokaa Laylee" will sell more then 2m on wii u and it will have the best "selling units:installed hw base" ratio. Unfortunaly we will wait to end of 2016 to see it

 

If Nintendo games do sell those numbers i dont see why 3rd party AAA title wouldnt. People dont buy a game "because its from Nintendo" (Super Smash Bros was made by Bandai Namco) or because its features mario and zelda (Splatoon, Nintendoland). They buy them because they are rated e and cartoony, so parents will buy those games for their kids or people who like wii u´s cartoony graphics will buy them.

Bayonetta2 is a good example of a realistic looking game published by nintendo. And it failed.

It even sold worse then ubisofts ZombiU (the only other AAA-realistic looking game). So its not the name "nintendo" who make wii u games sell.



There are some flaws in your argument OP. The games you listed are 'cartoony' are just kids/family games which traditionally do well on Nintendo consoles. Always have.

And graphics have nothing to do with games selling poorly or not on Nintendo consoles either. GC had most of its ports looking better than PS2 and it hardly mattered. And Wii U for awhile had its games on par with Xbox 360 and PS3(more or less) and they still sold horribly.

Mature games in general just seem to do badly on Nintendo platforms. It doesn't have to be like that though, but that's how it currently is.

In terms of third party M rated support, it would help if the Wii U versions weren't treated as red-headed stepchildren, and the versions to avoid. But that's more to do with marketing. Third parties will push the versions they think will sell more or pander to the platform they think will earn them more money or have deals in place.

Cartoony graphics don't have anything to do with it, or maybe you'd like to explain why Madworld bombed so hard?

Besides, let's be real here, why would you choose a Wii U version of a AAA if you had the choice? Because it'd be the worst looking version(cel shaded or not), and any extra features it has are likely to be tacked on, and if there's multiplayer the community wont be as lively as the PS4 or XBO mp community. And this gen so far has been about graphics and multiplayer.

And this isn't even going into the whole changing your whole engine for one version of a game.



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TheSpindler said:

There are some flaws in your argument OP. The games you listed are 'cartoony' are just kids/family games which traditionally do well on Nintendo consoles. Always have.

And graphics have nothing to do with games selling poorly or not on Nintendo consoles either. GC had most of its ports looking better than PS2 and it hardly mattered. And Wii U for awhile had its games on par with Xbox 360 and PS3(more or less) and they still sold horribly.

Mature games in general just seem to do badly on Nintendo platforms. It doesn't have to be like that though, but that's how it currently is.

In terms of third party M rated support, it would help if the Wii U versions weren't treated as red-headed stepchildren, and the versions to avoid. But that's more to do with marketing. Third parties will push the versions they think will sell more or pander to the platform they think will earn them more money or have deals in place.

Cartoony graphics don't have anything to do with it, or maybe you'd like to explain why Madworld bombed so hard?

Besides, let's be real here, why would you choose a Wii U version of a AAA if you had the choice? Because it'd be the worst looking version(cel shaded or not), and any extra features it has are likely to be tacked on, and if there's multiplayer the community wont be as lively as the PS4 or XBO mp community. And this gen so far has been about graphics and multiplayer.

And this isn't even going into the whole changing your whole engine for one version of a game.

Even if the rated m games would have good framerate and all dlcs nobody would get them. people dont get a wii u if they want m rated games. We already have 2 consoles that offers those games scince years and that are playstation and microsoft. Its almost impossible to try to "steal" market share from them as Nintendo with a first party lineup mainly aimed at kids/rated e.

 

People will play the wii u version (if cell shaded) because they cant play the realistic version (age restrictions)or they do like the artstyle just more.

Why do you think spaltoon sold 1mio in 3 weeks but call of duty sold less then 300k on wii u lifetime? COD has a way bigger marketing then splatoon and this marketing also effects the wii u version. Its just that parents will not buy call of duty for their 12 year old kids that got a wii u but they will buy splatoon and adults/teenagers that care about rated m/realistic games dont have a wii u.

 

COD BO II and Splatoon both got 81/100 points on metacritic. So both games will be at least "similar" in terms of how good they are. Both are shooters.

The one is clearly aimed at a mature/Teenager audience ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIZp_E2CxQ ) the other is aimed at a childrens audience ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPOSKnOftA ).

 

So please explain why splatoon will probl sell 10x as many copies lifetime as call of duty on wii u if not because of graphics and e-rating in general?



Ka-pi96 said:
JNK said:

So please explain why splatoon will probl sell 10x as many copies lifetime as call of duty on wii u if not because of graphics and rating in general?

Maybe because Call of Duty will sell 20m+ on other consoles? People that want it will get it elsewhere. If Splatoon was multiplat like COD was then you can be sure that would sell significantly less on Wii U than it would being an exclusive too.

Killzone Shadowfall on Ps4 sold 2,23 Mio copies but advanced warfare sold 6.5 mio copies (ghost 3 mio). 

So both multiplatform cod shooter on ps4 sold more as the exclusive you cant get anywhere else.

 

On Xbox One Titanfall sold 2,6mio copies (xbox exclusive) but cod:aw as a multiplattform sold 4,4 mio copies.

 

Pretty much does disproves what you said. Splatoon doesnt sell that good because its exclusive. It might sell a bit better because its exclusive, but not that much. Check devils third sales in some month and you will see that this exclusive shooter will sell alot less then splatoon, even if both are exclusives.

 

Splatoon does sell that good because its what the wii u audience want to play. A cartoony fun looking game that can be played by kids. If splatoon would had realistic graphics you could be sure you would see similar sales as bayo2.

 

Did you watched the nintendos world championship? There was a little kid commentating as they palyed splatoon. Those kids are the main audience that do play splatoon and that does play on wii u. They will never buy a bayonetta 2, as call of duty or assassins creed game.



JNK said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

2-3 million? So you don't think it'll double or triple it'll increase tenfold?


why shouldnt they? All triple A cartoony games sold in that range on wii u.

Im also very sure that the game "yokaa Laylee" will sell more then 2m on wii u and it will have the best "selling units:installed hw base" ratio. Unfortunaly we will wait to end of 2016 to see it

 

If Nintendo games do sell those numbers i dont see why 3rd party AAA title wouldnt. People dont buy a game "because its from Nintendo" (Super Smash Bros was made by Bandai Namco) or because its features mario and zelda (Splatoon, Nintendoland). They buy them because they are rated e and cartoony, so parents will buy those games for their kids or people who like wii u´s cartoony graphics will buy them.

Bayonetta2 is a good example of a realistic looking game published by nintendo. And it failed.

It even sold worse then ubisofts ZombiU (the only other AAA-realistic looking game). So its not the name "nintendo" who make wii u games sell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/47/wii-u/

You may want to re-think that statement.



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

ArchangelMadzz said:
JNK said:


why shouldnt they? All triple A cartoony games sold in that range on wii u.

Im also very sure that the game "yokaa Laylee" will sell more then 2m on wii u and it will have the best "selling units:installed hw base" ratio. Unfortunaly we will wait to end of 2016 to see it

 

If Nintendo games do sell those numbers i dont see why 3rd party AAA title wouldnt. People dont buy a game "because its from Nintendo" (Super Smash Bros was made by Bandai Namco) or because its features mario and zelda (Splatoon, Nintendoland). They buy them because they are rated e and cartoony, so parents will buy those games for their kids or people who like wii u´s cartoony graphics will buy them.

Bayonetta2 is a good example of a realistic looking game published by nintendo. And it failed.

It even sold worse then ubisofts ZombiU (the only other AAA-realistic looking game). So its not the name "nintendo" who make wii u games sell.

http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/47/wii-u/

You may want to re-think that statement.


so which AAA game on that list sold less?

The worst AAA title in terms of sales is Windwaker and thats a gamecube port at 1,3 mio.

 

Sorry but 2d plattformer games like Donkey Kong: TF or Lego games arnt AAA that could compete in any possible way to a 3d mario or assassins creed.



Ka-pi96 said:

It doesn't disprove what I said at all. What I said was correct.

Would Call of Duty sell more on Wii U if it was Wii U exclusive? Yes, it would. It would also sell significantly less overall though.

Would Splatoon sell less on Wii U if it was multiplat? Again, yes. It would sell less on Wii U since people would buy copies on other platforms as well.

Multiplatform games outselling exclusives on other consoles doesn't change a thing, multiplatforms are some of the biggest sellers in the industry so that happening sometimes is inevitable. Even those examples you used would have been different if multiplat however. Killzone SF would have sold less on PS4 if it was multiplat, although probably would have made up for selling more total thanks to other platforms.

And this is essentially what you are talking about. You want Wii U exclusive versions of games so they would sell more on Wii U. Well yeah, they would sell more on Wii U, but it wouldn't be worth doing. Developers are much better off making the game as similar as possible to sell on multiple platforms both because that is easier and results in the most sales. Making exclusive features or content to help one version sell more does happen, but only small additions are done and even then they are usually paid for by the console manufacturer rather than the developer themselves. But a developer doing what would be a big and fairly expensive addition for one version and funding it completely by themselves? Just doesn't make sense, the sales boost on that one platform just wouldn't be worth it when they could spend that time and money making more multiplatform content that sells way more.

Hm i think it would be worth it. AAA-Cartoony games on wii u (there arnt many though, i count Nintendoland, Smash, Zelda WWHD, 3d Wörld, Mario Kart and splatoon as AAA titles) sold multiple millions on wii u.

A cartoony looking game would also be kind of exlcusive scince it wouldnt compete with the "realisitc looking counterparts". You said that too.

 

Rework a AAA-game so it will sell 1-3 Millions would be worth the work in my opinion. The rework will be clearly alot easier then to make a complete new game from scratch (like Splatoon, and even that was very profitable i guess).

So instead Ubisoft doing a game like rayman legends completly from scratch and release it for 6 plattforms (doing 5 ports) which will sell 2m copies lifetime, it would be better and alot easier to reworking an assassins creed game to make it selling ~2mio copies on wii u to people that would never buy this game without the rework .