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Forums - Sports Discussion - NFL finds Patriots employees probably deflated balls

binary solo said:
One simple solution is that both sides play with the same ball that is provided either by the NFL or the home team.

Imagine if each team brought their own soccer ball to a match and the balls were swapped out each time there was a turnover of possession?

Another solution is that the pressure of the ball is checked by a match official at each turnover. There is enough stop-start in football as it is a quick pressure test before the ball goes onto the field isn't going to cause any delay.


That would not work on several levels.  First off, they use multiple balls during the game (12).  This makes it easier to keep the game going quickly (well, more quickly anyway).  

Also, teams are allowed to have some degree of control over the qualities of the ball.  There is a pount of wiggle room in the pressure of the ball, and players also have some control over the scruff of the ball.  There is no reason to take away the control because one team cheats.

A good solution to this problem is to lay down a harsh penalty.  If you risk losing your starting QB for a few games, the risk wouldn't be worth it.



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Folks should read the findings themselves, rather than some shoddy parsing on a gaming website. There are plenty...plenty of holes in the Wells' report, also, the 3rd party that Wells team hired? Not exactly a shining company:

"But Exponent's research has come under fire from critics, including engineers, attorneys and academics who say the company tends to deliver to clients the reports they need to mount a public defense."


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/18/business/la-fi-toyota-exponent18-2010feb18

And by the way, missing from the texts OP parsed? The two individuals discussing balls that were inflated to PSI by the officials (blatant violation), and that they would be screwing with Tom's footballs intentionally, which explains why one of them said 'Fuck Brady' twice.

Page 4 and 5:

McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a fuckin balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though...

Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs fucked us...a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally: Fuck tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday

Jastremski: Omg! Spaz

On October 21, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text messages:

McNally: Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so tom can get used to it before sunday

Jastremski: Omg

On October 23, 2014, three days before a Sunday game against the Chicago Bears, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:

Jastremski: Can‟t wait to give you your needle this week :)

McNally: Fuck tom....make sure the pump is attached to the needle.....fuckin watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating

The next day, October 24, 2014, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:

Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week

McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby sunday

McNally: Fuck tom

Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What you see above is called reasonable doubt.  It's clear there's animosity between McNally and Brady, and it's clear not only the refs have screwed around w/ ball inflation, but these two individuals clearly are fucking with the balls as well. 

PS. I'm still not sure what to think, frankly.  It's clear these two individuals were up to something, it's clear the Refs are pretty incompetent, and if Brady's guilty, shame on them all.   But, I'm still stuck on the 'more probable than not' part, and the NFL's appallingly low level of evidence required to levee punishment, not to mention the ridiculous amount of leaks to the media throughout the entire process.

Still, it raises the question, why make this such a public thing?  Why not just do what you did w/ Deflategate and send out a memo?  Why would the PATRIOTS of all people, have to bring a copy of the rule to the refs everytime they bring them the balls to remind them the legal parameters for PSI (another interesting tidbit).  There's just so many odd failings in this report, as well as the handling of the entire thing.



Say it ain't so Tom! Say it ain't so!!



IamAwsome said:
So if they did indeed deflate balls, will they lose their Super Bowl title?

Firstly, speaking as somebody who hates the Pats, so don't declare me a biased fanboy for saying this.

 

No, they won't and shouldn't be stripped of the SB title. The deflated balls only lasted until about halftime when the Colts got a pick and the player realized the ball was really deflated. After that they were reinflated by refs during halftime and the game continues normally. After halftime, I believe the Pats REALLY turned it into a blowout, but I can't remember the scoring by quarter since it's been four months. 

 

Moreover, the Colts didn't use the same balls, so their play was unaffected. Having deflated balls on offense didn't help the Pats' defense stop Luck cold most drives. Had the game been close, and decided by a Pats' TD before the balls were discovered, then maybe there'd be a case here, but considering the history of Brady v Luck and the results that happened, nothing the Colts did would've helped win that game. 

 

I do believe that if they can find Brady truly behind the plans, that he should be suspended and given a harsh penalty (maybe personally stripped of his SB MVP since that's inconsequential to the outcome of that game but very important to him personally).



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DivinePaladin said:
IamAwsome said:
So if they did indeed deflate balls, will they lose their Super Bowl title?

Firstly, speaking as somebody who hates the Pats, so don't declare me a biased fanboy for saying this.

 

No, they won't and shouldn't be stripped of the SB title. The deflated balls only lasted until about halftime when the Colts got a pick and the player realized the ball was really deflated. After that they were reinflated by refs during halftime and the game continues normally. After halftime, I believe the Pats REALLY turned it into a blowout, but I can't remember the scoring by quarter since it's been four months. 

 

Moreover, the Colts didn't use the same balls, so their play was unaffected. Having deflated balls on offense didn't help the Pats' defense stop Luck cold most drives. Had the game been close, and decided by a Pats' TD before the balls were discovered, then maybe there'd be a case here, but considering the history of Brady v Luck and the results that happened, nothing the Colts did would've helped win that game. 

 

I do believe that if they can find Brady truly behind the plans, that he should be suspended and given a harsh penalty (maybe personally stripped of his SB MVP since that's inconsequential to the outcome of that game but very important to him personally).

The thing is is that the Patriots have been doing this as early as October 2014 (and likely way before that). I personally believe they started to really ramp it up after the Chiefs game. Notice how terrible Brady was during the first quarter of the season (including that demolition by the Chiefs) then after. It's a night and day difference.

 

The main issue though is that Brady lied. Brady lied to investigators a few times, wouldn't let them read his emails and texts, and denied involvement. He should get a year suspension based on that alone.



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IamAwsome said:
So if they did indeed deflate balls, will they lose their Super Bowl title?


hopefully.  Makes me sick they won it at all



I am Iron Man

McDonaldsGuy said:

The main issue though is that Brady lied. Brady lied to investigators a few times, wouldn't let them read his emails and texts, and denied involvement. He should get a year suspension based on that alone.

Would you settle for a $10k fine and a personal apology from Roger Goodell?



McDonaldsGuy said:
DivinePaladin said:

Firstly, speaking as somebody who hates the Pats, so don't declare me a biased fanboy for saying this.

 

No, they won't and shouldn't be stripped of the SB title. The deflated balls only lasted until about halftime when the Colts got a pick and the player realized the ball was really deflated. After that they were reinflated by refs during halftime and the game continues normally. After halftime, I believe the Pats REALLY turned it into a blowout, but I can't remember the scoring by quarter since it's been four months. 

 

Moreover, the Colts didn't use the same balls, so their play was unaffected. Having deflated balls on offense didn't help the Pats' defense stop Luck cold most drives. Had the game been close, and decided by a Pats' TD before the balls were discovered, then maybe there'd be a case here, but considering the history of Brady v Luck and the results that happened, nothing the Colts did would've helped win that game. 

 

I do believe that if they can find Brady truly behind the plans, that he should be suspended and given a harsh penalty (maybe personally stripped of his SB MVP since that's inconsequential to the outcome of that game but very important to him personally).

The thing is is that the Patriots have been doing this as early as October 2014 (and likely way before that). I personally believe they started to really ramp it up after the Chiefs game. Notice how terrible Brady was during the first quarter of the season (including that demolition by the Chiefs) then after. It's a night and day difference.

 

The main issue though is that Brady lied. Brady lied to investigators a few times, wouldn't let them read his emails and texts, and denied involvement. He should get a year suspension based on that alone.

Yeah except that argument falls flat, given Brady was using correct balls in the SB, and went what, 8 for 8 on the final drive and brought his team back from 10pts down (which no one had ever done before)?  Additionally, where's the evidence Brady lied again?  Nothing in the Wells report actually says anyone did anything, it merely uses the NFL's appallingly low bar for 'preponderance of the evidence' (which is applied in integrity cases), as opposed to the real world 'evidence'.  As far as not giving them his phone...it's his phone, who knows what's on it.  And he owed the NFL exactly jack and shit after all the leaks (which no one in the league has addressed).

PS. 3 of the 4 Colts balls tested at Half-time were also under-inflated (Page 8)



mornelithe said:

Additionally, where's the evidence Brady lied again?  Nothing in the Wells report actually says anyone did anything, it merely uses the NFL's appallingly low bar for 'presumption of guilt', as opposed to the real world 'evidence'.  As far as not giving them his phone...it's his phone, who knows what's on it.  And he owed the NFL exactly jack and shit after all the leaks (which no one in the league has addressed).

Also, Ben Rothelisberger has never done anything inappropriate in a restroom, the Saints never employed a bounty system, no one really knows what happened on that party boat, Adrian Peterson's son might have just walked into a running lawn mower, and Ray Rice's fiance was really just mugging for the camera.



mornelithe said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

The thing is is that the Patriots have been doing this as early as October 2014 (and likely way before that). I personally believe they started to really ramp it up after the Chiefs game. Notice how terrible Brady was during the first quarter of the season (including that demolition by the Chiefs) then after. It's a night and day difference.

 

The main issue though is that Brady lied. Brady lied to investigators a few times, wouldn't let them read his emails and texts, and denied involvement. He should get a year suspension based on that alone.

Yeah except that argument falls flat, given Brady was using correct balls in the SB, and went what, 8 for 8 on the final drive and brought his team back from 10pts down (which no one had ever done before)?  Additionally, where's the evidence Brady lied again?  Nothing in the Wells report actually says anyone did anything, it merely uses the NFL's appallingly low bar for 'preponderance of the evidence' (which is applied in integrity cases), as opposed to the real world 'evidence'.  As far as not giving them his phone...it's his phone, who knows what's on it.  And he owed the NFL exactly jack and shit after all the leaks (which no one in the league has addressed).

PS. 3 of the 4 Colts balls tested at Half-time were also under-inflated (Page 8)

Yeah it's not suspicious at all that Brady was caught LYING during interviews and he didn't let them see the text messages or emails. Not suspicious at all.

And it's not a "low bar," it's normal. The NFL just has to show there is a 51% probability that Tom Brady had knowledged and condoned the deflating of footballs and I think it's pretty clear he did.

Not to mention Brady was caught cheating before via Spygate.