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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Star Wars: Battlefront Aiming for 60fps, Will Have Destruction Where Appropriate

Chazore said:
torok said:
Chazore said:
 


very strong materials =P

 

Come on, the Death Star is super strong, except by a very specific 1m hole that would make the entire thing explode if someone with a X-wing shot it! Talk about design flaws.

And lets not forget about Endor, the frigate and capital ships in the prequels and original series, the AT-AT's, Tie fighters being weaker than X-Wings despite the Empire having unlimited funds compared to the small Rebel army tech.

They had to pretend the empire's stuff was weaker because otherwise the Rebels never would have won.  Hollywood loves the idea of a rag-tag group beating a larger/stronger military force even though that never has happened in real life.



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[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

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I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

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Normchacho said:
Lack of space battles is a bummer.


Looks like it should line up well with Episode VII. The pair of teasers seem to indicate that Abrams still doesn't realize he's been dealing with franchises that have the word "Star" in their title. At least we got a breif glimpse in the second teaser. If they can't scare up 5-1o seconds of a space battle in the proper trailer, I'll really be worried. 



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Eddie_Raja said:
Chazore said:
torok said:
Chazore said:
 


very strong materials =P

 

Come on, the Death Star is super strong, except by a very specific 1m hole that would make the entire thing explode if someone with a X-wing shot it! Talk about design flaws.

And lets not forget about Endor, the frigate and capital ships in the prequels and original series, the AT-AT's, Tie fighters being weaker than X-Wings despite the Empire having unlimited funds compared to the small Rebel army tech.

They had to pretend the empire's stuff was weaker because otherwise the Rebels never would have won.  Hollywood loves the idea of a rag-tag group beating a larger/stronger military force even though that never has happened in real life.

Well they explain it in teh rest of star wars media and the games.  The empire look a lot scaryer than it was and teh rebels were a lot stronger and ha better tech because some important planets were on their side.



60 fps and destructible? Yeah absolutely not going to look like that trailer. Not that I believe it would anyways.



JustBeingReal said:

 

LOL your pictures just prove my point.


For one thing the you can't build an artificial solid moon sized structure without super strong materials, the stresses a structure that big would undergo are well beyond real world technology.

The Executor Class ship is over 17KMs long, yet the Death Star still stands after that enormous ship lands into it, most definitely an example of super strong materials.

The Death Star was destroyed by it's reactor exploding, that's a power source sufficient enough for a moon sized space station/ship, in order to blast something that big apart and keep it apart you have to break it's gravitational bonds, meaning that power source is probably millions of times more powerful than anything in the modern world, by which I mean all potential explosive armaments on the planet today.

 

My point is that a regular dude running around with a blaster isn't blowing a hole in a wall, unless he has some advanced explosive, but said explosive will probably wipe out him, his buddies and leave a huge crator in the area of the map if he uses it, basically end game style stuff.

Unless it's a regular concrete wall, there are tonnes of examples of super strong materials in Star Wars, unless you're going to ignore the laws of physics.

 

Regarding the AT-AT it's still in one piece, right up until it's defenses are warn down by super strong lasers from snowspeeders.

I've watched every star wars film, multiple times, the events you showed actually prove my point.

"For one thing the you can't build an artificial solid moon sized structure without super strong materials, the stresses a structure that big would undergo are well beyond real world technology."

That still sounds like an architectural point rather than the materials withstanding actual explosions and the eventual demise from within, sure it makes complete sense in the universe that they needed materials that could stand being in space and being in a cricular shape but standing against outside interference wasn't so great.

"The Executor Class ship is over 17KMs long, yet the Death Star still stands after that enormous ship lands into it, most definitely an example of super strong materials."

back in the 80's the special fx really didn't do the Executor class destruction real justice, if it was done today the visual damage it had done would be shown in full, I feel a ship of that size did more damage than a V bomber crashing into the Star Destroyer's communications section.

"The Death Star was destroyed by it's reactor exploding, that's a power source sufficient enough for a moon sized space station/ship, in order to blast something that big apart and keep it apart you have to break it's gravitational bonds, meaning that power source is probably millions of times more powerful than anything in the modern world, by which I mean all potential explosive armaments on the planet today."

It still shows that the entrance to the reactor along with it's general design was still the weakness, in essence it was both ana rchetictual and material flaw that let to their demise not once but twice.

"My point is that a regular dude running around with a blaster isn't blowing a hole in a wall, unless he has some advanced explosive, but said explosive will probably wipe out him, his buddies and leave a huge crator in the area of the map if he uses it, basically end game style stuff."

Well that's what I'm on about, using mere grenades,C4, rockets and tanks/fighters could all do good amounts of battlefield damage in games like bad Company 2, that game had great levels of allowed destruction, BF3 had visually toned that down and then by 4 they rebranded it as "levolution" and it's limited to a point where most are scripted when you do something rather than it being complete up to what you do to the battlefield.

What I'd at least expect out of this is being able to knock down trees, blow apart walls completely, cripple buildings to a point where you cannot stay within them (battlefield Bad Company 2 was known for allowing you to blow buildings to a point where they collapse), being able to blow up AT-AT's is a complete gurantee but I just want to see more battlefield destruction rather than tiny little pieces with scripted parts, it's already bad enough the AT-AT's are on rails yet the ones from BF2 you could pilot them to go anywhere and still fend off armies and if you were a good shot, snowspeeders as well.

I just feel that with a tiny graphical advancement we've gone back a few steps on what previous games had and trying to ham up what's elft as being more sound and reasonable than what was available before, if there's not enough adiquate and bigger battlefields with good amounts of destruction then it'll just look like Battlefield but with a SW paintjob.



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Eddie_Raja said:
Chazore said:
torok said:
Chazore said:
 


very strong materials =P

 

Come on, the Death Star is super strong, except by a very specific 1m hole that would make the entire thing explode if someone with a X-wing shot it! Talk about design flaws.

And lets not forget about Endor, the frigate and capital ships in the prequels and original series, the AT-AT's, Tie fighters being weaker than X-Wings despite the Empire having unlimited funds compared to the small Rebel army tech.

They had to pretend the empire's stuff was weaker because otherwise the Rebels never would have won.  Hollywood loves the idea of a rag-tag group beating a larger/stronger military force even though that never has happened in real life.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.



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Eddie_Raja said:

They had to pretend the empire's stuff was weaker because otherwise the Rebels never would have won.  Hollywood loves the idea of a rag-tag group beating a larger/stronger military force even though that never has happened in real life.

And I agree, I bought into that when I was a kid and teen, but now I'm much older and look at it from a design point/general view on how the Empire should win or how their tech should do some damage, there's very little points in the SW universe where bad guys win and when they do it's for a peroid of time that's usually less than what the good guys had despite having better/worse technology, if you look at the prequels the look of the tech back then looked lightyears ahead of the tech from the original trilogy and that sticks out like a sore thumb both from a film standpoint and time period.

I know Hollywood loves that idea but we're the games industry, we're supposed to not be like hollywood, we're supposed to be doing our own thing and games are certainly not meant to be all about being movies or trying to copy them down to how everything works.



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Chazore said:
JustBeingReal said:
 

 

LOL your pictures just prove my point.


For one thing the you can't build an artificial solid moon sized structure without super strong materials, the stresses a structure that big would undergo are well beyond real world technology.

The Executor Class ship is over 17KMs long, yet the Death Star still stands after that enormous ship lands into it, most definitely an example of super strong materials.

The Death Star was destroyed by it's reactor exploding, that's a power source sufficient enough for a moon sized space station/ship, in order to blast something that big apart and keep it apart you have to break it's gravitational bonds, meaning that power source is probably millions of times more powerful than anything in the modern world, by which I mean all potential explosive armaments on the planet today.

 

My point is that a regular dude running around with a blaster isn't blowing a hole in a wall, unless he has some advanced explosive, but said explosive will probably wipe out him, his buddies and leave a huge crator in the area of the map if he uses it, basically end game style stuff.

Unless it's a regular concrete wall, there are tonnes of examples of super strong materials in Star Wars, unless you're going to ignore the laws of physics.

 

Regarding the AT-AT it's still in one piece, right up until it's defenses are warn down by super strong lasers from snowspeeders.

I've watched every star wars film, multiple times, the events you showed actually prove my point.

"For one thing the you can't build an artificial solid moon sized structure without super strong materials, the stresses a structure that big would undergo are well beyond real world technology."

That still sounds like an architectural point rather than the materials withstanding actual explosions and the eventual demise from within, sure it makes complete sense in the universe that they needed materials that could stand being in space and being in a cricular shape but standing against outside interference wasn't so great.

It's a matter of the stresses materials can stand, the point is just how much weight the whole structure adds up to.

Think about how big a moon is, once you get to a certain size gravity starts to become an issue. The Death Star is enormous, made of nothing but dense solid materials like metals, which are themselves heavy, to prevent all of that mass being crushed down into a single dense point the materials have to be well beyond anything we can even manufacture with modern manufacturing methods.

"The Executor Class ship is over 17KMs long, yet the Death Star still stands after that enormous ship lands into it, most definitely an example of super strong materials."

back in the 80's the special fx really didn't do the Executor class destruction real justice, if it was done today the visual damage it had done would be shown in full, I feel a ship of that size did more damage than a V bomber crashing into the Star Destroyer's communications section.

It is what it is, when you look at visual evidence you can't say, "well if this happened differently", it happened in the movie how it did.

Actually how that's represented in the movie is right, the Death Star is already an enormous structure, many times bigger than the Executor, made of solid metal, it's like shooting a bullet at a tank, the tank just shrugs off that impact, best case a scratch would be left.

The Executor hit a solid, dense portion of the hull, the V Bomber hit glass, then went inside, the two aren't even remotely comparable events.

"The Death Star was destroyed by it's reactor exploding, that's a power source sufficient enough for a moon sized space station/ship, in order to blast something that big apart and keep it apart you have to break it's gravitational bonds, meaning that power source is probably millions of times more powerful than anything in the modern world, by which I mean all potential explosive armaments on the planet today."

It still shows that the entrance to the reactor along with it's general design was still the weakness, in essence it was both ana rchetictual and material flaw that let to their demise not once but twice.

It's not an example of material weakeness, it's an example of poor design from a defense point of view, but actually blowing the Death Star up required a huge amount of explosive energy, like I said in order to break something that big apart and essentially vaporize it is in itself a solid example of massively strong materials being in play, it's nothing else.

"My point is that a regular dude running around with a blaster isn't blowing a hole in a wall, unless he has some advanced explosive, but said explosive will probably wipe out him, his buddies and leave a huge crator in the area of the map if he uses it, basically end game style stuff."

Well that's what I'm on about, using mere grenades,C4, rockets and tanks/fighters could all do good amounts of battlefield damage in games like bad Company 2, that game had great levels of allowed destruction, BF3 had visually toned that down and then by 4 they rebranded it as "levolution" and it's limited to a point where most are scripted when you do something rather than it being complete up to what you do to the battlefield.

What I'd at least expect out of this is being able to knock down trees, blow apart walls completely, cripple buildings to a point where you cannot stay within them (battlefield Bad Company 2 was known for allowing you to blow buildings to a point where they collapse), being able to blow up AT-AT's is a complete gurantee but I just want to see more battlefield destruction rather than tiny little pieces with scripted parts, it's already bad enough the AT-AT's are on rails yet the ones from BF2 you could pilot them to go anywhere and still fend off armies and if you were a good shot, snowspeeders as well.

Trees I agree on, walls made of Rock definitely, but anything made of some super strong metals like the Death Star is made from or even a huge ship would require way more than your standard rocket or C4 level explosion.

Star Wars, in universe advanced weaponery should do damage to those kinds of materials, if they were shown to do that kind of damage in the movies or within other cananon events that can be used as evidence from the show.

A personal blaster or even a Rocket shouldn't be able to take out a wall made of the same material that the Death Star's hull's made of. If you can stand within viewing distance of an uber weapon, then it's not an uber powerful weapon.


I just feel that with a tiny graphical advancement we've gone back a few steps on what previous games had and trying to ham up what's elft as being more sound and reasonable than what was available before, if there's not enough adiquate and bigger battlefields with good amounts of destruction then it'll just look like Battlefield but with a SW paintjob.

We have new physics technologies courtesy of GPGPU that DICE should be using in Battlefront. Destruction should get even more realistic.

DICE has said Battlefront won't be BF with an SW paintjob, to be fair we haven't yet seen anything of the actual game in play, so to judge it based on no evidence isn't really fair.

See bolded text above.



So....no space battles....and only 4 planets.....


Dear DICE, kindly fuck off



JustBeingReal said:
Chazore said:

It's a matter of the stresses materials can stand, the point is just how much weight the whole structure adds up to.

Think about how big a moon is, once you get to a certain size gravity starts to become an issue. The Death Star is enormous, made of nothing but dense solid materials like metals, which are themselves heavy, to prevent all of that mass being crushed down into a single dense point the materials have to be well beyond anything we can even manufacture with modern manufacturing methods.

Ok I'm not going to get into real life archeticual science vs fantasy, that gets super deep that there's no need to even go as far, the DS blew up twice to two seperate faults and the Empire boasted their power and it blew up, to me that's a flaw and that's all there is.


It is what it is, when you look at visual evidence you can't say, "well if this happened differently", it happened in the movie how it did.

That'd be like saying a stop motion puppet animation detailed how the battle of somme looked and played and saying it is what it is, only they didn't account for how it fully looked, if you look at the actual visual fx it's just fireworks, looking at episode 1-3 explosions outdo most visual explosions from the original trilogy, to me that shows visually how much damage is done compared to a few sparklers and a model slowly going into a minature flat based model.

Actually how that's represented in the movie is right, the Death Star is already an enormous structure, many times bigger than the Executor, made of solid metal, it's like shooting a bullet at a tank, the tank just shrugs off that impact, best case a scratch would be left.

Yeah it's much bigger and it can stand the pressure and all that, what I'm getting at is the damage it did, it;s not akin to a mere bullet wound, it was more than that and would have caused some rgeat internal damage, it also didn't help that afterwards the DS exploded anyway so it recieved double the damage along the way.

The Executor hit a solid, dense portion of the hull, the V Bomber hit glass, then went inside, the two aren't even remotely comparable events.

I wouldn't just say mere glass, like you said for the DS it had to be built with strong materials to withstand gravity, density and all that, it would have had proper framing and beams to support itself.

It's not an example of material weakeness, it's an example of poor design from a defense point of view, but actually blowing the Death Star up required a huge amount of explosive energy, like I said in order to break something that big apart and essentially vaporize it is in itself a solid example of massively strong materials being in play, it's nothing else.

Proton torpedos seemed to do the job in the end though, the Falcon also fired it's load which was enough to take out standard fighters and not Executor/SD class ships let alone a death star.

Trees I agree on, walls made of Rock definitely, but anything made of some super strong metals like the Death Star is made from or even a huge ship would require way more than your standard rocket or C4 level explosion.

I'd agree to that but by that logic DICE could very well get away and claim every structure is made of such material, ergo we wouldn't get any destructible buildings and that itself is just boring and less detailed.

Star Wars, in universe advanced weaponery should do damage to those kinds of materials, if they were shown to do that kind of damage in the movies or within other cananon events that can be used as evidence from the show.

A personal blaster or even a Rocket shouldn't be able to take out a wall made of the same material that the Death Star's hull's made of. If you can stand within viewing distance of an uber weapon, then it's not an uber powerful weapon.

And I mostly agree with that, I just find that if Han and co can blow up a bunker on Endor completely from the inside out then we should be able to do the same, we should be able to tie an AT-AT till it falls down or crash ships into certain places to do enough damage that it matters.


We have new physics technologies courtesy of GPGPU that DICE should be using in Battlefront. Destruction should get even more realistic.

I find it hard to believe when they renamed their destrive physics to "levolution", I've watched plenty of vids on BF4's type destruction and then it being compared to their previous works, BC2 still gives the user more levels of destruction, maybe not extreme fine detail but I find leveling a whole building a lot more fun and realistic than blowing out one floor and seeing only the steel beams left and the rest of the building is magically supported. 

I also saw what their engine could do for an RTS for the first time and we all saw how that turned out, generals 2 got canned and we never got to see what that was capable of let alone what destruction could have been caused within the battlefield of that game.

DICE has said Battlefront won't be BF with an SW paintjob, to be fair we haven't yet seen anything of the actual game in play, so to judge it based on no evidence isn't really fair.

That's the thing, just saying it doesn't make it all right with the world, for some people that's 100% enough for them to go on but for some of us it's not that simple, we want results, gameplay and we want it to stand up from now till release rather than shown now and changed drastically by release a la Watchdogs. 

I know we haven't seen anything but that doesn't mean we can't criticise how the game is going to be and how it's being handled, if we can't then I guess we should all join hands and tell Jim to take down his recent battlefront video if he can't point out what's wrong with it or what can be wrong with it.

See unbolded text above.





Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"