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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Without Playstation, would the industry be in another crisis?

Materia-Blade said:
Mr Puggsly said:
zorg1000 said:

Those people moved onto other devices, that doesn't somehow negate the fact that Nintendo moved the industry forward during the Wii era.

And how exactly are Playstation/Xbox moving the industry forward? Like I said in another reply, PS2+Xbox & PS3+360 will sell roughly the same, and it's very likely PS4+XB1 will as well. They haven't done anything in 15 years to move gaming forward since their audience has remained stagnant for 3 consecutive generations.

Again, the Wii was a fad and its impact on the industry wasn't worth much. I mean the Wii isn't credited for anything that we love about gaming today. It was a neat machine for people that still enjoy Mario games and waggling to pop music.

How is Xbox and Playstation moving the industry forward? Well they invest more money in their hardware, which can be used to raise the bar in game design. They have created great online gaming infrastuctures, while Nintendo platforms feel archaic in that regard. You feel Nintendo moves the industry, while many of us are waiting for them to catch up.

Nintendo wishes its console sales were stagnant, the Wii bubble bursted and now the Wii U is probably going to be their worst selling console. Hopefully it will achieve the Dreamcast userbase this year.

I get it that you don't like the wii but there's no point in trying to diminish it. The wii is credited for bringing accurate motion controls to gaming, something that true gamers always dreamed of. the wii remote + nunchuck is the perfect control for shooters, it allowed games that weren't possible before and the motion + even allowed the likes of 1:1 sword control.

The Wiimote created unique experience for some games, but for the most part it controlled like a mouse pointer. I could argue Kinect and Move also created unique experiences, but their impact on gaming hasn't been signficant.

If Wiimote was something "true gamers" dreamed of then the Wii would have sold better to core audiences and Nintendo would have continued pushing it.



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I wouldn't say a "crisis" per se, but it definitely wouldn't be as strong.



Samus Aran said:
Ruler said:

-N64 games havent aged better, the console doesnt even support rgb output unlike the ps1 and saturn. Play them on your lcd tv and you will see for your self. And unlike both consoles the n64 has almost zero 2D/sprites type games. And the texture filter on the n64 is horrible. You can actually play your ps1 game on your ps2, turn off smoothging textures and play via component cables making the ps1 games look alot better than n64.

 

I almost never see people talk about PS1 games anymore, only exceptions are Crash, Spyro and FF VII.

SM64 was light years ahead of Crash Bandicoot trilogy, so was Banjo-Kazooie. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still talked about a lot these days and are considered to be some of the best games ever made. Goldeneye OO7 is often considered to be the first good FPS on consoles, and rightfully so. Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong Racing were better than Crash Team Racing (which was a Mario Kart rip off). The N64 also gave birth to the most succesful fighting game franchise ever: Super Smash Bros. To this day people can't seem to shut up about the greatness that was Star Fox 64. In JRPGs the PS1 had a huge advantage, but Paper Mario is still considered one of the best JRPGs ever made. The N64 even hade some pretty awesopme Star Wars games.

And PS1 games definitely don't look better than N64 games. The funny thing is, a lot of PS1 games were pretty small in scope despite CDs being superior to cartridges. Examples include Metal Gear Solid 1 which you can easily beat in a couple of hours (not including cutscenes) and the Crash Bandicoot trilogy which has incredibly linear and straight level design. It's practically a 2D platformer tbh.

I guess most of the memory of PS1 games was filled up with cheesy voice acting and FMV. Things that might have been selling points at the time, but they have aged horribly.

I can say with full confidence that the PS1 didn't have games that aged as well as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or SM64 (that camera aged terribly though, lol).

And this is coming from a guy who grew up with the PS1, I never even heard of the N64 in my childhood. Syphon Filter, Crash Bandicoot trilogy, Crash Team Racing, Soul Blade, Metal Gear Solid 1, Gran Turismo I've all played and finished.

So you never played games like Alundra, symphony of the night, Klonoa, Breath of Fire 3, Point Blank, Ridge Racer 4, Ace Combat, Silent Hill? The PS1 has tons of games who aged very well and a lot more games you havent even played yet for sure. The N64s library is pretty boring as a whole, 40% of its 400 game library are sports games, espacially for guys like me who dont like nintendo franchises in general this console.

The only reason why i bought and still keeping my N64 is to play the best console version of hexen and the only console version of starcraft, both games are some of the very view 2D sprites based games on this console by the way. But other than that i have zero interests in the other games you have mentioned. So perception is relative.



You mean "another" on top of the current one, right?



Ruler said:
Samus Aran said:

I almost never see people talk about PS1 games anymore, only exceptions are Crash, Spyro and FF VII.

SM64 was light years ahead of Crash Bandicoot trilogy, so was Banjo-Kazooie. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still talked about a lot these days and are considered to be some of the best games ever made. Goldeneye OO7 is often considered to be the first good FPS on consoles, and rightfully so. Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong Racing were better than Crash Team Racing (which was a Mario Kart rip off). The N64 also gave birth to the most succesful fighting game franchise ever: Super Smash Bros. To this day people can't seem to shut up about the greatness that was Star Fox 64. In JRPGs the PS1 had a huge advantage, but Paper Mario is still considered one of the best JRPGs ever made. The N64 even hade some pretty awesopme Star Wars games.

And PS1 games definitely don't look better than N64 games. The funny thing is, a lot of PS1 games were pretty small in scope despite CDs being superior to cartridges. Examples include Metal Gear Solid 1 which you can easily beat in a couple of hours (not including cutscenes) and the Crash Bandicoot trilogy which has incredibly linear and straight level design. It's practically a 2D platformer tbh.

I guess most of the memory of PS1 games was filled up with cheesy voice acting and FMV. Things that might have been selling points at the time, but they have aged horribly.

I can say with full confidence that the PS1 didn't have games that aged as well as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or SM64 (that camera aged terribly though, lol).

And this is coming from a guy who grew up with the PS1, I never even heard of the N64 in my childhood. Syphon Filter, Crash Bandicoot trilogy, Crash Team Racing, Soul Blade, Metal Gear Solid 1, Gran Turismo I've all played and finished.

So you never played games like Alundra, symphony of the night, Klonoa, Breath of Fire 3, Point Blank, Ridge Racer 4, Ace Combat, Silent Hill? The PS1 has tons of games who aged very well and a lot more games you havent even played yet for sure. The N64s library is pretty boring as a whole, 40% of its 400 game library are sports games, espacially for guys like me who dont like nintendo franchises in general this console.

The only reason why i bought and still keeping my N64 is to play the best console version of hexen and the only console version of starcraft, both games are some of the very view 2D sprites based games on this console by the way. But other than that i have zero interests in the other games you have mentioned. So perception is relative.

Symphony of the Night looks uglier than a SNES game if you ask me (Super Mario World 2 for instance). As for the other games, I either never heard of them or simply don't care. I have an anxiety disorder, so I avoid games with jumpscares like the bubonic plague (i.e. Silent Hill). Those PS1 horror games aged like crap anyway.

What I said in my post was true, the N64 classics are still often brought up, the PS1 classics much less so.

40% of the N64 library are sports games? If you say so, lol.

Perception is indeed relative, but that doesn't change the fact that many people consider the games I listed as classics still to this day.

If I wanted to play 2D sprite games, I'd get a SNES or GBA anyway. The N64 was the era of 3D games and that's what I'm going to rate it for.

And I was a little kid during the PS1 days, so I had no control over what games I got to play. But my friend had a modded PS1 to allow for pirated games, so I got to play a huge chunk of the library. I only mentioned the games I still have (fond) memories of.



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Samus Aran said:

Symphony of the Night looks uglier than a SNES game if you ask me (Super Mario World 2 for instance). As for the other games, I either never heard of them or simply don't care. I have an anxiety disorder, so I avoid games with jumpscares like the bubonic plague (i.e. Silent Hill). Those PS1 horror games aged like crap anyway.

What I said in my post was true, the N64 classics are still often brought up, the PS1 classics much less so.

40% of the N64 library are sports games? If you say so, lol.

Perception is indeed relative, but that doesn't change the fact that many people consider the games I listed as classics still to this day.

If I wanted to play 2D sprite games, I'd get a SNES or GBA anyway. The N64 was the era of 3D games and that's what I'm going to rate it for.

And I was a little kid during the PS1 days, so I had no control over what games I got to play. But my friend had a modded PS1 to allow for pirated games, so I got to play a huge chunk of the library. I only mentioned the games I still have (fond) memories of.

Selective memory right there.

Games like Crash, Spyro, FF VII, Tekken 3, Legend of Dragoon, Medievil, Abe's Odysee, and Tomba are brought up all the time. But if you spend most of your time on Ninty forums or forums in which Ninty fans are very active, you're most likely gonna get that impression.

In my opinion, both n64 and ps1 games look terrible, while Nes games still look ok/good.



naruball said:
Samus Aran said:
 

Symphony of the Night looks uglier than a SNES game if you ask me (Super Mario World 2 for instance). As for the other games, I either never heard of them or simply don't care. I have an anxiety disorder, so I avoid games with jumpscares like the bubonic plague (i.e. Silent Hill). Those PS1 horror games aged like crap anyway.

What I said in my post was true, the N64 classics are still often brought up, the PS1 classics much less so.

40% of the N64 library are sports games? If you say so, lol.

Perception is indeed relative, but that doesn't change the fact that many people consider the games I listed as classics still to this day.

If I wanted to play 2D sprite games, I'd get a SNES or GBA anyway. The N64 was the era of 3D games and that's what I'm going to rate it for.

And I was a little kid during the PS1 days, so I had no control over what games I got to play. But my friend had a modded PS1 to allow for pirated games, so I got to play a huge chunk of the library. I only mentioned the games I still have (fond) memories of.

Selective memory right there.

Games like Crash, Spyro, FF VII, Tekken 3, Legend of Dragoon, Medievil, Abe's Odysee, and Tomba are brought up all the time. But if you spend most of your time on Ninty forums or forums in which Ninty fans are very active, you're most likely gonna get that impression.

In my opinion, both n64 and ps1 games look terrible, while Nes games still look ok/good.

Who on earth still talks about Tomba? I only know him because of the Completionist. Tomba and Medievil aren't even good at all.

The first 3 games you mentioned were the ones I mentioned as exception.

And I do go to forums where the Sony fanbase is big. And I also read the Sony discussions on this forum.



naruball said:
zorg1000 said:
HollyGamer said:
zorg1000 said:

I don't really buy it that Playstation made gaming more diverse, gaming was growing in America before Playstation released.

Atari 2600 did about 23 million in America

NES did about 33 million in America

SNES+Genesis did about 45 million in America

PS1+N64 did about 60 million in America

PS2+XB+GC did about 80 million in America

The console market would likely have continued to increase in America with or without Playstation, people credit Playstation for bringing gaming to adults but I don't believe it, kids who played games in previous generations were now becoming teens or adults so it's just natural that they would want more adult themed games.

Let simply say and agree that gaming would have continue even without PS, but will not be as mainstream like today,and high probability might have anothe crisis  because it would have only  supported by Japan and US. the same happen with ATARI because no compatition, no global appeal.


How does that lead to a crisis and what does the Atari crash have to do with anything?

So we have already established America would continue to rise with or without Playstation, as would Japan, it went from Gen 3-20 million, Gen 4-25 million, Gen 5-30 million.

The console market was about 20 million or so outside of those regions pre-Playstation.

So it's safe to assume that without Playstation, the 5th generation would probably be the same or similar in America/Japan and everywhere else similar to Gen 3/Gen 4 putting the total around 110 million instead of the 140 million we saw. Nothing suggests a crisis would have happened.

You did no such thing. Your hypothesis is built on a weak argument. Just because the market was growing, it doesn't mean it would keep growing or at the same pace. Or should someone assume that since the market has been growing until now, this generation will surpass the last one? We all know that's not happening. Also, 3 out of 5 generations you mentioned include ps consoles. Without them we have no idea how the other consoles would have done. Especially since ps2 sold a lot thanks to the dvd player and piracy (same with ps1) and we don't know if other consoles would have faced similar problems.

What I mean by "we have established" is that him and I agree that the console market was likely to continue to grow with or without Playstation. Obviously we have clue what would have happened without Playstation, but there is nothing that suggests a "crisis" would happen since the American & Japanese console market was very healthy at the time. I'll give Playstation credit where credit is due, they made console gaming mainstream in Europe and developing countries, but they did not in America/Japan as gaming was already mainstream by then.



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Ka-pi96 said:
I would hope somebody else would have seen the potential of the industry and have stepped in.

If not then PC gaming would truly reign supreme.


This, and we could also say that Sony and MS too, and even Ninty itself filled market spaces left vacant by previous console companies. Anyway, when too many gaming companies, or even a few ones, but representing a large and important part of the market, fail, crises usually happen, and Sony and MS failure would mean a big crisis. Sure, later their place would be taken over by other companies, but it would take time, meanwhile PC and mobiles would fill the void. Ninty could grab part of that space, but not all, besides catering well for part of the market and no so well for other parts, grabbing all would require to grow too much, Ninty likes to grow, but it wants to remain nimble enough to avoid being crushed by its own weight should its sales shrink so much to not be able to support a bloated company.



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Samus Aran said:
naruball said:
Samus Aran said:
 

Symphony of the Night looks uglier than a SNES game if you ask me (Super Mario World 2 for instance). As for the other games, I either never heard of them or simply don't care. I have an anxiety disorder, so I avoid games with jumpscares like the bubonic plague (i.e. Silent Hill). Those PS1 horror games aged like crap anyway.

What I said in my post was true, the N64 classics are still often brought up, the PS1 classics much less so.

40% of the N64 library are sports games? If you say so, lol.

Perception is indeed relative, but that doesn't change the fact that many people consider the games I listed as classics still to this day.

If I wanted to play 2D sprite games, I'd get a SNES or GBA anyway. The N64 was the era of 3D games and that's what I'm going to rate it for.

And I was a little kid during the PS1 days, so I had no control over what games I got to play. But my friend had a modded PS1 to allow for pirated games, so I got to play a huge chunk of the library. I only mentioned the games I still have (fond) memories of.

Selective memory right there.

Games like Crash, Spyro, FF VII, Tekken 3, Legend of Dragoon, Medievil, Abe's Odysee, and Tomba are brought up all the time. But if you spend most of your time on Ninty forums or forums in which Ninty fans are very active, you're most likely gonna get that impression.

In my opinion, both n64 and ps1 games look terrible, while Nes games still look ok/good.

Who on earth still talks about Tomba? I only know him because of the Completionist. Tomba and Medievil aren't even good at all.

The first 3 games you mentioned were the ones I mentioned as exception.

And I do go to forums where the Sony fanbase is big. And I also read the Sony discussions on this forum.

Tons of people. You obviously haven't noticed because you haven't played/don't like the game. I assume you like certain Ninty games and thus when you see someone mentioning them, you notice it.

Tomba was brilliant and so was Medievil.