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DOes anybody knows if my PS3 Logitech Driving Force will work on this game on PS4?



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SpokenTruth said:
Hynad said:


What of those games? Have you ever pressed the pause button in a game? Menus are loaded at all time to be ready in case you press pause. Those games you mention have maps, menus and whatever else could be useful at the moment displayed on the Gamepad screen. That's not an intensive use of processing power by any means. xD

I'm sure if you take the time to notice how the two screens work together, for example how in some games the main screen action is basically paused while you're doing your thing on the Gamepad screen, and other similar method, your idea about the Wii U's processing power will come back down to a more reasonable level.

You've never played Mario Kart 8, have you?

I have the game, so I've played it, yes.

What of it? 



curl-6 said:
bonzobanana said:

Yes the wii u gpu definitely has the superior feature set but ultimately getting a game to run even with reduced graphic quality is about memory and cpu performance. If the wii u had a  hard drive then fair enough you could give wii u the advantage but lack of hard drive means no fast streaming of data from hdd which on 360 and PS3 massively helps stream in textures and new graphic data which the wii u lacks. Lets not also forget while the wii u has that 32MB of very fast memory it is also hindered by main memory which is slower than that of 360 and PS3 and the 360 has 10MB of very fast memory itself. The ps3 splits its memory into 2 camps with one fast to the cell processor and one fast to the gpu. There is more cpu performance in its dual thread main powerpc cpu than the wii u and the ps3 still has 6 more cell processors on top.  

Your comment 'haphazardly ported to wii u' is a biased comment. A large number of developers have made games for the wii u now, it has a well established and dated cpu architecture and probably a mobile radeon gpu in addition to an older integrated wii gpu chip.  There is no reason to think all these developers have got lazy and have all failed to achieve good results on wii u. By far the most logical conclusion is the wii u spec is weak with poor performance. Lets also not forget the wii u is based on a dated 45/40nm fabrication process like 360 and PS3 yet uses far less power even allowing for the lack of hard drive. You simply can't expect such a console to have good performance. It is what it is a console that performs roughly in line with the last generation, weaker in some areas, stronger in others. The design is basically achieve last gen performance but with significant cost savings using low cost low bandwidth memory chips for example and no hard drive. If the wii u had sold well it would have been  hugely profitable for Nintendo on the hardware alone.

I'm a wii u owner myself as well as 360 and PS3 and its pretty clear the console is struggling to even match those consoles much of the time.

Actually, Wii U can stream data from the drive; it was just announced that Xenoblade Chronicles X does this.

PS3/360 may have higher main RAM bandwidth, but they have less than half as much memory available to games, plus 360's much smaller eDRAM and PS3's split memory can present problems that Wii U does not suffer from.

Let's take an actual look at the multiplat games that underperform on Wii U; virtually every one was built from the ground up for the PS3/360 with Wii U as an afterthought, often handed off to an outside contractor. Splinter Cell, Mass Effect 3, COD Ghosts, Arkham City, Watch Dogs, none of these were even handled by the same studio as the primary versions. The fact that they were farmed out shows they were low priority; we saw the same thing with the last gen versions of games like Titanfall and Advanced Warfare.


What drive? The wii u has an optical drive, slow flash memory and slow usb 2.0 port. PS3 and 360 can simultanously stream from their optical drives and hard drives which use a fast SATA connection.

Clearly I'm not going to state the ps3 and 360 have more memory than wii u but the point is the hdd streaming does compensate and the wii u only has limited flash memory or a slow usb 2.0 port that they can't rely on as not everyone will have usb storage.

Like most multi-platform games they are developed for whatever they have to run on and there is as much if not more variation between the ps3, 360 and PC in architectures as the wii u and 360 and PS3. On the cpu front clearly the wii u, 360 and PS3 for its primary cpu all share powerpc and for AMD/Radeon gpu's these are common in the 360 and many PCs. The architecture of the wii u is relatively simplistic with just 3 single threaded powerpc cpu's, certainly less complicated to optimise than the ps3's multi-core cell processor and the 360's dual thread triple cpu.

Loads of games have multiple developers to allow development on different consoles this is an industry wide thing. 

I've seen it written numerous times how the wii u got inferior developers working on it but the same developers did 360, PS3 and wii u ports of the same game most of the time. Basically as you would expect the powerpc versions were often done by the same developer. There is a list of their work here for Ubisoft Romania who also did the PS3 and 360 versions of many Assassin Creed games and Watch dogs plus of course the inferior wii u versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Romania

It's just the typical Nintendo fanboy nonsense that reads like they believe there is some sort of conspiracy against the wii u. How on earth can the wii u compete with modern consoles when its got 3x 1.25ghz powerpc cores from the last century for cpu power. It makes no sense at all. How on earth do people believe it can be powerful when its fabrication technology is the same as ps3/360 not xbone/ps4 and yet consumes far less power. 

The same issue that people seem to think somehow its as hard to create cartoon graphics as it is realistic graphics. Clearly it doesn't take much to work out that non-realistic graphics with simplistic and repeated textures, non-realistic lighting and no real world physics engine is going to be a lot easier. The real test for any graphics system is creating realistic graphics.

Again though no question the gpu feature set of the wii u gpu is clearly superior to 360 and PS3 and that clearly will bring visual benefits.

User moderated for this post -RavenXtra

 

 

 



SpokenTruth said:

Ever play it with more than one person offline?

Yes. I play 3 players matches quite regularly. The Gamepad shows the exact same thing as the TV. And the game's frame rate goes to 30fps with poss-process effects scaled back.

Nothing magic going on here. Even if its a good performer. 

This still doesn't help your case about the console's second screen.

I take it you think I'm saying the Wii U is no more powerful than the PS360. That's not what I said nor implied. We were comparing SM3DW to Crack in Time. Saying that a game like SM3DW could run just about the same on PS3 isn't saying the Wii U is weak. It's saying that this particular game is far from making full use of the Wii U's power.



Samus Aran said:
bonzobanana said:


Yes the wii u gpu definitely has the superior feature set but ultimately getting a game to run even with reduced graphic quality is about memory and cpu performance. If the wii u had a  hard drive then fair enough you could give wii u the advantage but lack of hard drive means no fast streaming of data from hdd which on 360 and PS3 massively helps stream in textures and new graphic data which the wii u lacks. Lets not also forget while the wii u has that 32MB of very fast memory it is also hindered by main memory which is slower than that of 360 and PS3 and the 360 has 10MB of very fast memory itself. The ps3 splits its memory into 2 camps with one fast to the cell processor and one fast to the gpu. There is more cpu performance in its dual thread main powerpc cpu than the wii u and the ps3 still has 6 more cell processors on top.  

Your comment 'haphazardly ported to wii u' is a biased comment. A large number of developers have made games for the wii u now, it has a well established and dated cpu architecture and probably a mobile radeon gpu in addition to an older integrated wii gpu chip.  There is no reason to think all these developers have got lazy and have all failed to achieve good results on wii u. By far the most logical conclusion is the wii u spec is weak with poor performance. Lets also not forget the wii u is based on a dated 45/40nm fabrication process like 360 and PS3 yet uses far less power even allowing for the lack of hard drive. You simply can't expect such a console to have good performance. It is what it is a console that performs roughly in line with the last generation, weaker in some areas, stronger in others. The design is basically achieve last gen performance but with significant cost savings using low cost low bandwidth memory chips for example and no hard drive. If the wii u had sold well it would have been  hugely profitable for Nintendo on the hardware alone.

I'm a wii u owner myself as well as 360 and PS3 and its pretty clear the console is struggling to even match those consoles much of the time.

Nintendo must be working magic then as Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Yoshi's Woolly World, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Super Smash Bros. Wii U look far better than similar PS3 games.

Even gamecube remasters (Wind Waker HD) look better than similar games like Sly Cooper HD collection and Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time (a game built from the ground up for the PS3). 

LittleBigPlanet 1-3 run at terrible framerates for a 2.5D platformer. Constant 60 fps should be a must for such games. 

Playstation All Stars Battle Royale runs at 720p and can't even hold a firm 60 fps while Super Smash Bros. Wii U runs at 1080p and 60 fps even when 8 characters are on screen at the same time. 

Modnation Racers looks a lot worse than Mario Kart 8 and runs at a meagre 30fps while Mario Kart 8 runs at a solid 60fps.

Ratchet and Clank into the Nexus is a 4 hour game that can't even hold 30fps most of the time... Super Mario 3D World looks a lot better with a perfect 60fps. 

Xenoblade Chronicles X has a much bigger overworld than any PS3 open world game and it looks much better than let's say Skyrim. Of course the PS3 has games with better graphics than XBX, but those aren't huge open world games. 

I don't think it will surprise anyone that cartoon graphics games that require low cpu resources look good on wii u and  beat ps3 much of the time. PS3 gpu is realtively weak, weaker than 360 and the only way it really punches above its weight is when cell processors are used to assist it and give it a boost which was only really viable for bigger budget games that were mature enough to use later development software. 

Xenoblade chronicles doesn't look as fluid or detailed as many ps3 and 360 open world games like skyrim and its physics engine looks very basic. As for open world games in general that isn't a wii u strength. Watchdogs really struggles on wii u. Not only low frame rates but constantly accessing the optical drive is horrible as well as noisy. Those sort of games are a bad fit for wii u. GTA V looks utterly amazing on ps3, truly breathtaking for last gen. I've seen nothing even close to it on wii u with as many processes going on simulating a huge world. Even the new X game looks like a game of much simpler mechanics even though its got some visual pluses. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apRqCP5RDDE

At the end of the day people believe what they want to believe. I've got a ps3, 360 and wii u and connect them to a projector where the graphics can be seen clearly. The wii u strengths are basically it's primary developer Nintendo and not much else. Why are we even having a debate about wii u vs 360 and PS3, its because its performance has been utterly compromised by low cost components that it can not even start to compete with modern designs like ps4 and xbone.

Lets not forget its not just the wii u performance in games where the frame rates are low but there are issues where the wii u version is slower to load and the wii u gamepad is missing features like analogue triggers these also erode heavily into the wii u gaming experience and you end up with the wii u version of games being inferior even if its a rare game like Need for Speed Most Wanted where they have managed to add some improved textures in the wii u version.

It's a real shame that Nintendo have released such weak, compromised hardware. 



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bonzobanana said:
Samus Aran said:

Nintendo must be working magic then as Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Yoshi's Woolly World, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Super Smash Bros. Wii U look far better than similar PS3 games.

Even gamecube remasters (Wind Waker HD) look better than similar games like Sly Cooper HD collection and Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time (a game built from the ground up for the PS3). 

LittleBigPlanet 1-3 run at terrible framerates for a 2.5D platformer. Constant 60 fps should be a must for such games. 

Playstation All Stars Battle Royale runs at 720p and can't even hold a firm 60 fps while Super Smash Bros. Wii U runs at 1080p and 60 fps even when 8 characters are on screen at the same time. 

Modnation Racers looks a lot worse than Mario Kart 8 and runs at a meagre 30fps while Mario Kart 8 runs at a solid 60fps.

Ratchet and Clank into the Nexus is a 4 hour game that can't even hold 30fps most of the time... Super Mario 3D World looks a lot better with a perfect 60fps. 

Xenoblade Chronicles X has a much bigger overworld than any PS3 open world game and it looks much better than let's say Skyrim. Of course the PS3 has games with better graphics than XBX, but those aren't huge open world games. 

I don't think it will surprise anyone that cartoon graphics games that require low cpu resources look good on wii u and  beat ps3 much of the time. PS3 gpu is realtively weak, weaker than 360 and the only way it really punches above its weight is when cell processors are used to assist it and give it a boost which was only really viable for bigger budget games that were mature enough to use later development software. 

Xenoblade chronicles doesn't look as fluid or detailed as many ps3 and 360 open world games like skyrim and its physics engine looks very basic. As for open world games in general that isn't a wii u strength. Watchdogs really struggles on wii u. Not only low frame rates but constantly accessing the optical drive is horrible as well as noisy. Those sort of games are a bad fit for wii u. GTA V looks utterly amazing on ps3, truly breathtaking for last gen. I've seen nothing even close to it on wii u with as many processes going on simulating a huge world. Even the new X game looks like a game of much simpler mechanics even though its got some visual pluses. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apRqCP5RDDE

At the end of the day people believe what they want to believe. I've got a ps3, 360 and wii u and connect them to a projector where the graphics can be seen clearly. The wii u strengths are basically it's primary developer Nintendo and not much else. Why are we even having a debate about wii u vs 360 and PS3, its because its performance has been utterly compromised by low cost components that it can not even start to compete with modern designs like ps4 and xbone.

Lets not forget its not just the wii u performance in games where the frame rates are low but there are issues where the wii u version is slower to load and the wii u gamepad is missing features like analogue triggers these also erode heavily into the wii u gaming experience and you end up with the wii u version of games being inferior even if its a rare game like Need for Speed Most Wanted where they have managed to add some improved textures in the wii u version.

It's a real shame that Nintendo have released such weak, compromised hardware. 

I'm sorry, but using lazy third party ports as an argument that the Wii U is weak compared to the PS3/XBOX360 is a weak argument.

And XBCX is A LOT bigger than GTA V.



Samus Aran said:

I'm sorry, but using lazy third party ports as an argument that the Wii U is weak compared to the PS3/XBOX360 is a weak argument.

-snip-

And XBCX is A LOT bigger than GTA V.

While XCX is indeed more graphically impressive (at least on the PS3 and 360), it's a bit silly to complain about someone making unfair comparisons while putting nice gifs of XCX next to a 640x360 pic of a digger from GTA5 :p



curl-6 said:
Zekkyou said:

It's also worth noting that ToD doesn't run at a native 1280x720, and is a much less stable 60fps than 3D World. A degree of that instability is due to Insomniac having believed that hundreds of bolts on-screen at once makes things more fun than a solid 60fps (and i'd agree with them; it's one of the highlights of the Future trilogy), but even outside of those situations it's still far from a perfect lock.

I think ACiT (released 2 years later) looks a lot better than ToD did though. It wasn't a huge graphical jump over its predecessor, but they made much better use of what they had:

[images]

(Both shots seem to have had their IQ bumped, likely for marketing, but outside of that they're both in-game).

Crack in Time was indeed a very good looking game. Holds up well today, even.

I'd still give the win to games like 3D World and Mario Kart 8 though. Crack in Time runs at a sub-HD 960x704, and frequently dips below its 60fps target. 

I probably would too, but it's hard for me to give many solid reasons as to why. They're both platformers, but past that they have such different technical and gameplay goals that linear comparisons are almost impossible without Tachikoma's level of knowledge :p (even if i can come to a general conclusion).

Out of curiosity though, if ACiT maintained a perfect 720p/60fps (even during the crazy bolt-fests), what sort of gap (or lack of, etc) would you put between it and 3D World?



bonzobanana said:

What drive? The wii u has an optical drive, slow flash memory and slow usb 2.0 port. PS3 and 360 can simultanously stream from their optical drives and hard drives which use a fast SATA connection.

Clearly I'm not going to state the ps3 and 360 have more memory than wii u but the point is the hdd streaming does compensate and the wii u only has limited flash memory or a slow usb 2.0 port that they can't rely on as not everyone will have usb storage.

Like most multi-platform games they are developed for whatever they have to run on and there is as much if not more variation between the ps3, 360 and PC in architectures as the wii u and 360 and PS3. On the cpu front clearly the wii u, 360 and PS3 for its primary cpu all share powerpc and for AMD/Radeon gpu's these are common in the 360 and many PCs. The architecture of the wii u is relatively simplistic with just 3 single threaded powerpc cpu's, certainly less complicated to optimise than the ps3's multi-core cell processor and the 360's dual thread triple cpu.

Loads of games have multiple developers to allow development on different consoles this is an industry wide thing. 

I've seen it written numerous times how the wii u got inferior developers working on it but the same developers did 360, PS3 and wii u ports of the same game most of the time. Basically as you would expect the powerpc versions were often done by the same developer. There is a list of their work here for Ubisoft Romania who also did the PS3 and 360 versions of many Assassin Creed games and Watch dogs plus of course the inferior wii u versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Romania

It's just the typical Nintendo fanboy nonsense that reads like they believe there is some sort of conspiracy against the wii u. How on earth can the wii u compete with modern consoles when its got 3x 1.25ghz powerpc cores from the last century for cpu power. It makes no sense at all. How on earth do people believe it can be powerful when its fabrication technology is the same as ps3/360 not xbone/ps4 and yet consumes far less power. 

The same issue that people seem to think somehow its as hard to create cartoon graphics as it is realistic graphics. Clearly it doesn't take much to work out that non-realistic graphics with simplistic and repeated textures, non-realistic lighting and no real world physics engine is going to be a lot easier. The real test for any graphics system is creating realistic graphics.

Again though no question the gpu feature set of the wii u gpu is clearly superior to 360 and PS3 and that clearly will bring visual benefits.

XCX has optional installs that stream assets from the hard drive as well as from the disc, just like PS3/360. Between that and it's memory-intensive open world, XCX is a game PS3/360 could not handle, at least not without downgrades.

The engines that multiplats were made on were tailored to PS3/360 as a result of nearly a decade of experience with that hardware. Wii U had no such advantage. You're comparing launch/first year Wii U games to 7th-9th year PS3/360 games.

And if you want realistic graphics, I'd again point to Art of Balance; subsurface scattering and physically based shading at 60fps.



Zekkyou said:
curl-6 said:

Crack in Time was indeed a very good looking game. Holds up well today, even.

I'd still give the win to games like 3D World and Mario Kart 8 though. Crack in Time runs at a sub-HD 960x704, and frequently dips below its 60fps target. 

I probably would too, but it's hard for me to give many solid reasons as to why. They're both platformers, but past that they have such different technical and gameplay goals that linear comparisons are almost impossible without Tachikoma's level of knowledge :p (even if i can come to a general conclusion).

Out of curiosity though, if ACiT maintained a perfect 720p/60fps (even during the crazy bolt-fests), what sort of gap (or lack of, etc) would you put between it and 3D World?

If Crack in Time were upgraded to 720p and a solid 60fps, it would actually be quite close.