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Forums - Sony - If the PSvita is sonys last handheld, how long do you think will it survive?

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sc94597 said:
kristianity77 said:

Exactly.  Don't get me wrong, quite a few games on the 3DS impress me.  But thats more to do with the 3D effects than anything else.  Take Resident Evil Revelations for example. 3D effect on full it does look nice.  But if you turn that off, and just look at the graphics your dealing with as opposed to the wow factor of the 3D, its not that far off a PSP at all.  Similar with games like Zelda, Kid Icarus, starfox etc.  

The PSP when it came out, was probably the most technologically advanced bit of kit for its time than anything else before it, or after.  I mean, its 11 years old now in terms of specs, yet games STILL look good.

The person I quoted was speaking of "raw power" not how much the actual real world performance is visible. I shared the link as a simple guide. I don't have the time to provide many different source and a tech argument to somebody who obviously hasn't looked deeply into it. The link I provided was actually pretty conservative in its estimate as well. 

As for marginal benefits/margin power we must consider the law of diminishing returns. 

In terms of raw power, yes, the 3DS outperforms the PSP. Just like the GC outperformed the PS2. Neither difference is huge - as in a generation huge, but they still exist. 

If we want to also talk about feature-sets of course, the 3DS has a more advanced GPU with many advanced shading and lighting methods that the PSP did not have. The one advantage the PSP has over the 3DS is pixel density, and that can be a significant enough advantage in some games, while not so significant in others. Sure the games you listed wouldn't look out of place on the PS2, but neither would FFXII, SoTC, and GoW look out of place on the Gamecube. 

How does the PSP hold a pixel density advantage over the 3DS? The PSP is 480x272 which is PPI of 130 whereas all variations as far as I can tell of the 3DS are higher ( on the top screen at least)  Correct me if I'm wrong on this part however, as I'm only going off what I've read on websites.

Also, no one was stating that the 3DS isn't more powerful, we were stating that games across the two devices look very similar (which they do).  All I was stating was that in real world terms, there was very little difference between one machine from 2004 and one from 2011, which demonstrates how powerful the PSP was when released.

On topic, the Vita is the same as the PSP, it got a hell of a lot of power in there so in theory it "should" last for years.  But with so much of the console left untapped apart from 2 or 3 launch titles, the whole machine is going to waste.



PREDICTIONS FOR END OF 2015: (Made Jan 1st 2015)

PS4 - 34M - XB1 - 21m - WII U -12M

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Teeqoz said:
spemanig said:

Until Nintendo's next handheld comes out and outspecs it.


Presuming Nintendo's next handheld actually will outspec it. There's certainly a possibility that it won't.

There is a possibility, but it's relatively small.

1. The Vita is comparable to three year old phones in terms of hardware. You can find phones with Vita level hardware for $70. That is how quickly the mobile/handheld hardware is changing.

2. Nintendo is planning a unified platform with "cross-platform" games. If they make their next handheld too weak, then this would be difficult to develop and plan for, assuming their console form-factor is at least a little bit more powerful than the Wii U (and we should assume it is a little bit more powerful than the PS4/XBO at the least.) 



kristianity77 said:

How does the PSP hold a pixel density advantage over the 3DS? The PSP is 480x272 which is PPI of 130 whereas all variations as far as I can tell of the 3DS are higher ( on the top screen at least)  Correct me if I'm wrong on this part however, as I'm only going off what I've read on websites.

Also, no one was stating that the 3DS isn't more powerful, we were stating that games across the two devices look very similar (which they do).  All I was stating was that in real world terms, there was very little difference between one machine from 2004 and one from 2011, which demonstrates how powerful the PSP was when released.

On topic, the Vita is the same as the PSP, it got a hell of a lot of power in there so in theory it "should" last for years.  But with so much of the console left untapped apart from 2 or 3 launch titles, the whole machine is going to waste.

The 3DS's PPI ranges from 86 - 124 depending on the SKU. We are using a resolution of 400 x 240 not 800 x 240 (in 3D mode) because you don't see an improvement in pixel density in 3D, in fact aliasing is more noticeable. 

He said, "raw power" not "observable differences." I agree, the observable differences between the 3DS and PSP aren't huge, but all the next Nintendo handheld has to do is be a little more powerful than the Vita, and it can take third party developers (assuming a large userbase as well.) In fact, if it were vastly more powerful it could hurt the next Nintendo's handheld's chances with niche developers because development costs would rise as well. 



sc94597 said:
kristianity77 said:

How does the PSP hold a pixel density advantage over the 3DS? The PSP is 480x272 which is PPI of 130 whereas all variations as far as I can tell of the 3DS are higher ( on the top screen at least)  Correct me if I'm wrong on this part however, as I'm only going off what I've read on websites.

Also, no one was stating that the 3DS isn't more powerful, we were stating that games across the two devices look very similar (which they do).  All I was stating was that in real world terms, there was very little difference between one machine from 2004 and one from 2011, which demonstrates how powerful the PSP was when released.

On topic, the Vita is the same as the PSP, it got a hell of a lot of power in there so in theory it "should" last for years.  But with so much of the console left untapped apart from 2 or 3 launch titles, the whole machine is going to waste.

The 3DS's PPI ranges from 86 - 124 depending on the SKU. We are using a resolution of 400 x 240 not 800 x 240 (in 3D mode) because you don't see an improvement in pixel density in 3D, in fact aliasing is more noticeable. 

He said, "raw power" not "observable differences." I agree, the observable differences between the 3DS and PSP aren't huge, but all the next Nintendo handheld has to do is be a little more powerful than the Vita, and it can take third party developers (assuming a large userbase as well.) In fact, if it were vastly more powerful it could hurt the next Nintendo's handheld's chances with niche developers because development costs would rise as well. 


I don't even think the next Nintendo handheld has to be any more powerful than the Vita is personally.  It just needs to be supported with proper games.  Put it this way, if the Vita was as it was right now, just with Nintendos name on it instead of Sonys and it had titles that took advantage of the power of the Vita, it most certainly wouldn't be sitting on 10 million sales.  It'd be more like 50 million in my opinion. 



PREDICTIONS FOR END OF 2015: (Made Jan 1st 2015)

PS4 - 34M - XB1 - 21m - WII U -12M

sc94597 said:
Teeqoz said:


Presuming Nintendo's next handheld actually will outspec it. There's certainly a possibility that it won't.

There is a possibility, but it's relatively small.

1. The Vita is comparable to three year old phones in terms of hardware. You can find phones with Vita level hardware for $70. That is how quickly the mobile/handheld hardware is changing.

2. Nintendo is planning a unified platform with "cross-platform" games. If they make their next handheld too weak, then this would be difficult to develop and plan for, assuming their console form-factor is at least a little bit more powerful than the Wii U (and we should assume it is a little bit more powerful than the PS4/XBO at the least.) 


Unified platform does not mean that they will release cross-platform games aka releasing their games on both the NX HC and the NX HH. It means they will have a similar/same architecture and OS, which will make it easier to develop for both at the same time for Nintendo.



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Teeqoz said:
sc94597 said:

There is a possibility, but it's relatively small.

1. The Vita is comparable to three year old phones in terms of hardware. You can find phones with Vita level hardware for $70. That is how quickly the mobile/handheld hardware is changing.

2. Nintendo is planning a unified platform with "cross-platform" games. If they make their next handheld too weak, then this would be difficult to develop and plan for, assuming their console form-factor is at least a little bit more powerful than the Wii U (and we should assume it is a little bit more powerful than the PS4/XBO at the least.) 


Unified platform does not mean that they will release cross-platform games aka releasing their games on both the NX HC and the NX HH. It means they will have a similar/same architecture and OS, which will make it easier to develop for both at the same time for Nintendo.

Nintendo wants to do both. 

"Iwata specifically called out the difficulty of porting a Wii game to 3DS, saying it would require a "huge amount of effort" because the software architecture is "entirely different." The same issue crops up when Nintendo tried to port 3DS games to Wii U, he said."

"Nintendo won't face these issues going forward beyond the Wii U and 3DS, Iwata said, because the company's new unified approach will allow consoles and handhelds to become "like brothers in a family of systems.""



sc94597 said:
Teeqoz said:
sc94597 said:

There is a possibility, but it's relatively small.

1. The Vita is comparable to three year old phones in terms of hardware. You can find phones with Vita level hardware for $70. That is how quickly the mobile/handheld hardware is changing.

2. Nintendo is planning a unified platform with "cross-platform" games. If they make their next handheld too weak, then this would be difficult to develop and plan for, assuming their console form-factor is at least a little bit more powerful than the Wii U (and we should assume it is a little bit more powerful than the PS4/XBO at the least.) 


Unified platform does not mean that they will release cross-platform games aka releasing their games on both the NX HC and the NX HH. It means they will have a similar/same architecture and OS, which will make it easier to develop for both at the same time for Nintendo.

Nintendo wants to do both. 

"Iwata specifically called out the difficulty of porting a Wii game to 3DS, saying it would require a "huge amount of effort" because the software architecture is "entirely different." The same issue crops up when Nintendo tried to port 3DS games to Wii U, he said."

"Nintendo won't face these issues going forward beyond the Wii U and 3DS, Iwata said, because the company's new unified approach will allow consoles and handhelds to become "like brothers in a family of systems.""


Those quotes there are litterally just what I said.



still waiting for Sony to release a PSVITA Pro...



Teeqoz said:
sc94597 said:
Teeqoz said:
sc94597 said:

There is a possibility, but it's relatively small.

1. The Vita is comparable to three year old phones in terms of hardware. You can find phones with Vita level hardware for $70. That is how quickly the mobile/handheld hardware is changing.

2. Nintendo is planning a unified platform with "cross-platform" games. If they make their next handheld too weak, then this would be difficult to develop and plan for, assuming their console form-factor is at least a little bit more powerful than the Wii U (and we should assume it is a little bit more powerful than the PS4/XBO at the least.) 


Unified platform does not mean that they will release cross-platform games aka releasing their games on both the NX HC and the NX HH. It means they will have a similar/same architecture and OS, which will make it easier to develop for both at the same time for Nintendo.

Nintendo wants to do both. 

"Iwata specifically called out the difficulty of porting a Wii game to 3DS, saying it would require a "huge amount of effort" because the software architecture is "entirely different." The same issue crops up when Nintendo tried to port 3DS games to Wii U, he said."

"Nintendo won't face these issues going forward beyond the Wii U and 3DS, Iwata said, because the company's new unified approach will allow consoles and handhelds to become "like brothers in a family of systems.""


Those quotes there are litterally just what I said.

You said that they want the systems to be similar so that their developers are comfortable with both architectures, not so that the same games can release on both platforms. The quotes verify that Nintendo's intentions are both. He specifically mentioned porting. 



sc94597 said:
Teeqoz said:


Presuming Nintendo's next handheld actually will outspec it. There's certainly a possibility that it won't.

There is a possibility, but it's relatively small.

1. The Vita is comparable to three year old phones in terms of hardware. You can find phones with Vita level hardware for $70. That is how quickly the mobile/handheld hardware is changing.

2. Nintendo is planning a unified platform with "cross-platform" games. If they make their next handheld too weak, then this would be difficult to develop and plan for, assuming their console form-factor is at least a little bit more powerful than the Wii U (and we should assume it is a little bit more powerful than the PS4/XBO at the least.) 


Too be fair we don't even know what Nintendo is doing and whether or not it will be a unified platform. Everything is speculation so far.

OT I'm thinking that Vita will struggle until 2018 where it will finally die out and Sony claims that Vita is a success.