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Forums - Politics - Indiana Governer signs bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers.

The_Yoda said:
Hello again STAGE.

At bolded, that might sometimes be the case but is it always? Go to u-tube and watch some of the gay pride parades. or better yet check out:

this notice the dildo on the end of the mic? Notice all the cuts in that video.  This is meant to make the opposition look stupid. It is meant to undermine the beliefs of the oposition not simply to try to exist in peace as you put it.

For someone who isn't homophobic, you seem to really support the homophobic mindset. 

There are no absolutes in any scenario. There are shitty and irrational people on both sides of the spectrum. Did African Americans just sit and take their discrimination in complete peace? No. There were protests and there was anger and there was conflict. This is almost a complete replication of that era. These people (generally) just want to have the same basic rights as everyone else, and of course they're going to have an issue with people that try to hatefully treat them as if they're beneath them. I ask you, if the roles were reversed, how would you feel? If you woke up one morning, walked to a grocery store to pick up some vegetables, and the clerk denied you service, how would you feel? If you tried to order a wedding cake and a baker said they wouldn't? Or what if someone tried to protest your memorial service? How would you feel?

This isn't an issue of belief, it's an issue of civility and respect. 



Official Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Thread

                                      

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The_Yoda said:

Hello again STAGE.

At bolded, that might sometimes be the case but is it always? Go to u-tube and watch some of the gay pride parades. or better yet check out:

this notice the dildo on the end of the mic? Notice all the cuts in that video.  This is meant to make the opposition look stupid. It is meant to undermine the beliefs of the oposition not simply to try to exist in peace as you put it.

The cuts in the video didn't make the opposition look foolish. The opposition made the opposition look foolish. Anyways, I don't see any forcing beliefs on other people in this video not to mention it's meant to be funny rather than serious.

@ bolded. There will always be people on whatever side who will try to force their beliefs on others, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this question into debate.



pepharytheworm said:
Ryudo said:


Here in Utah we just passed a bill you CAN'T discriminate when applying for a Job or housing for the LGBT. Last year gay marriage became legal. Glad my state is making progress while some continue to live 50 years ago

Didn't Utah just bring back excutions by firing squad? lol

LOL Utah is the one place I've been where I truely felt discriminated against. Haven't been too many places in Utah and where this happened was Salt Lake City.



sc94597 said:
Wonktonodi said:


free societies have rule of law. there are things that we don't allow, refusing to make laws supporting the right thing for fear of backlash is foolish. As is leaving places that make us uncomefortable as Aeolus451 keeps suggesting. Sometimes lines need to be drawn. The idea of, sit and wait history is on your side isn't good enough. Popular ideas beat out unpopular ideas, good has nothing to do with it.

It is foolish to create the legal groundwork in which the same people you want to force yourself upon can force their views on you. You are subsidising the efforts of the people you oppose by creating an institution that forces one groups beliefs onto another. In a truly free society all people can live with their own separate belief systems.  

Having laws is the groundwork for any view to be forced on someone but It would be more follish not to have the legal groundwork set up to protect people for fear that bad laws might be made. Even your truely "free society" would be forcing views on people, the view that all belief systems are equall. Plus their is a big difference than beliefs and actions. Beliefs: x,y and z are sins. Actions: refusing to do business with people who do x, still doing business with y, and z.



Skullwaker said:

 If you woke up one morning, walked to a grocery store to pick up some vegetables, and the clerk denied you service, how would you feel? If you tried to order a wedding cake and a baker said they wouldn't? Or what if someone tried to protest your memorial service? How would you feel?

I know the question wasn't directly at me, but I thought I'd answer from my perspective. Honestly I'd feel even worse if I went to the grocery store, the clerk gave me poor service, still treated me like trash, and I rewarded him by giving him money for the goods (let's say the clerk is also the owner.) I'd rather see him fail by denying me service than to see him succeed by giving me a service he doesn't want to give me. I'd like all restaruants that are racist or homophobic to outright refuse service to me rather than have the staff spit in my food. I personally like for shitty people to be clearly shitty so that I can avoid them. 



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Skullwaker said:
The_Yoda said:
Hello again STAGE.

At bolded, that might sometimes be the case but is it always? Go to u-tube and watch some of the gay pride parades. or better yet check out:

this notice the dildo on the end of the mic? Notice all the cuts in that video.  This is meant to make the opposition look stupid. It is meant to undermine the beliefs of the oposition not simply to try to exist in peace as you put it.

For someone who isn't homophobic, you seem to really support the homophobic mindset. 

There are no absolutes in any scenario. There are shitty and irrational people on both sides of the spectrum. Did African Americans just sit and take their discrimination in complete peace? No. There were protests and there was anger and there was conflict. This is almost a complete replication of that era. These people (generally) just want to have the same basic rights as everyone else, and of course they're going to have an issue with people that try to hatefully treat them as if they're beneath them. I ask you, if the roles were reversed, how would you feel? If you woke up one morning, walked to a grocery store to pick up some vegetables, and the clerk denied you service, how would you feel? If you tried to order a wedding cake and a baker said they wouldn't? Or what if someone tried to protest your memorial service? How would you feel?

This isn't an issue of belief, it's an issue of civility and respect. 

I agree with the bolded.  As to how I would feel ... screw em, their loss.  I wouldn't try to force my business upon them though.  My memorial service ... kinda funny ... I'd imagine I would feel dead.

I am talking about belief  you want to make it about civility and respect.  Do I think they should be respectfull of eachother ... yes. Should they be civil ... yes and if they can't be then those individuals need to avoid eachother. 



sc94597 said:
I know the question wasn't directly at me, but I thought I'd answer from my perspective. Honestly I'd feel even worse if I went to the grocery store, the clerk gave me poor service, still treated me like trash, and I rewarded him by giving him money for the goods (let's say the clerk is also the owner.) I'd rather see him fail by denying me service than to see him succeed by giving me a service he doesn't want to give me. I'd like all restaruants that are racist or homophobic to outright refuse service to me rather than have the staff spit in my food. I personally like for shitty people to be clearly shitty so that I can avoid them. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your sentiment, but I believe people should at least have a choice. This is something that was at the center of the world's attention decades ago and has been resolved ever since, yet it's being brought up again? Very disconcerting, in my opinion.



Official Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Thread

                                      

Wonktonodi said:
sc94597 said:
Wonktonodi said:


free societies have rule of law. there are things that we don't allow, refusing to make laws supporting the right thing for fear of backlash is foolish. As is leaving places that make us uncomefortable as Aeolus451 keeps suggesting. Sometimes lines need to be drawn. The idea of, sit and wait history is on your side isn't good enough. Popular ideas beat out unpopular ideas, good has nothing to do with it.

It is foolish to create the legal groundwork in which the same people you want to force yourself upon can force their views on you. You are subsidising the efforts of the people you oppose by creating an institution that forces one groups beliefs onto another. In a truly free society all people can live with their own separate belief systems.  

Having laws is the groundwork for any view to be forced on someone but It would be more follish not to have the legal groundwork set up to protect people for fear that bad laws might be made. Even your truely "free society" would be forcing views on people, the view that all belief systems are equall. Plus their is a big difference than beliefs and actions. Beliefs: x,y and z are sins. Actions: refusing to do business with people who do x, still doing business with y, and z.

Laws (in liberal societies) are meant to protect people from force, not iniate it. If somebody refuses to do service with another person, they are not iniating force. 



The_Yoda said:
I agree with the bolded.  As to how I would feel ... screw em, their loss.  I wouldn't try to force my business upon them though.  My memorial service ... kinda funny ... I'd imagine I would feel dead.

I am talking about belief  you want to make it about civility and respect.  Do I think they should be respectfull of eachother ... yes. Should they be civil ... yes and if they can't be then those individuals need to avoid eachother. 

But people can't always avoid each other. That's the thing. This isn't something that can be resolved indefinitely. People just have to learn to be tolerant of others, and that's the bottom line. There is no reason to act like an asshole over such miniscule things. 

In a perfect world, no one would give a shit what someone's sexual preference is (well, unless they're romantically interested in them), but that's not the world we live in. For whatever reason, it's a big issue and I'm just saying I can see why the homosexual community is pissed off over being treated like shit.

In my opinion, belief shouldn't have anything to do with this. If someone's belief is that homosexuality is a sin, that's just fine with me. I don't care about them and I will likely never talk to them about it. It's when they decide to actively go out of their way and prevent someone else from living their life that it becomes something bigger.



Official Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Thread

                                      

Aura7541 said:
The_Yoda said:

Hello again STAGE.

At bolded, that might sometimes be the case but is it always? Go to u-tube and watch some of the gay pride parades. or better yet check out:

this notice the dildo on the end of the mic? Notice all the cuts in that video.  This is meant to make the opposition look stupid. It is meant to undermine the beliefs of the oposition not simply to try to exist in peace as you put it.

The cuts in the video didn't make the opposition look foolish. The opposition made the opposition look foolish. Anyways, I don't see any forcing beliefs on other people in this video not to mention it's meant to be funny rather than serious.

@ bolded. There will always be people on whatever side who will try to force their beliefs on others, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this question into debate.

it was a counter to "LGBT community aren't forcing beliefs on people, they are just trying to exist in peace." now do you understand why I brought it up?

 

It is meant to be funny and in some parts it is but that doesn't mean there is no agenda represented.