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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 HDMI issues

kingofwale on 09 March 2008
jkimball said:
akuma587 said:
HDMI cables are all more or less the same. Not even a trained professional will notice the difference between a $100 Monster cable and a $5 off brand cable (as long as the cables are both HDMI 1.3, but that only makes a difference in audio and other features that have yet to be implemented). It is a DIGITAL cable. 1's and 0's look the same no matter how you send them. You needed to worry about which component cables you bought because they were ANALOG and could be very different. A higher brand cable might last a little longer, but it would have to last 20 times as long for that cost difference to take effect, which it never will.

You don't need to go buy a Monster Cable. You are wasting your time and money that way. But believe me, people who spent $100 on a cable will try to convince you and themselves that it is better.

This has to be the most popular internet myth ever! I hear over and over and it is quite funny to a (former) electonrics engineer like myself. I wonder how this rumour even started.

Digital signals are still sent as waves - just like analog signals. In fact they are sent as square waves which is HARDER do to than an analog wave. Because the digital timing is critical theyare MORE likely to suffer degradation/signal problems. If an analog signal is distorted you get a crappy picture. if a digital signal is distorted your options range from dropped pixels - pixelation- nothing.

Now because digital signals are so fragile, a lot of error correcting data is sent with the digital stream so digital *connections* rarely fail. That reliability has nothing to do with the cable - a crappy cable will generate so many erros that even the error corection can't cope and the signal will be lost.

There was never a big difference between $100 Monster VGA cables and $5 VGA cables. There isn't a big difference between $100 HDMI cables and $5 HDMI cables. But a bad cable - of any type - will cause just as many problems in digial as it does in analog.

I recommend the OP hook up the cable to wave generator, run it into an oscilloscope and see how the shape is. Sounds like a grounding problem - perhaps a worn inner shell?


 

All I can say is... Thank you very much! This is the most detailed description of digital vs analog signal post I've ever read online. Thanks for educating me.

 Whenever I buy cable/headphones, I always buy the most expensive one I can afford, not that I think it will make the signal better, I just don't want it to break on me.

I bought headphones, adaptors, cables via eBay for garbage price, and they are just like the price... Garbage, most of them broke on me within a month.



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Lone_Canis_Lupus on 09 March 2008
jkimball said:
akuma587 said:
HDMI cables are all more or less the same. Not even a trained professional will notice the difference between a $100 Monster cable and a $5 off brand cable (as long as the cables are both HDMI 1.3, but that only makes a difference in audio and other features that have yet to be implemented). It is a DIGITAL cable. 1's and 0's look the same no matter how you send them. You needed to worry about which component cables you bought because they were ANALOG and could be very different. A higher brand cable might last a little longer, but it would have to last 20 times as long for that cost difference to take effect, which it never will.

You don't need to go buy a Monster Cable. You are wasting your time and money that way. But believe me, people who spent $100 on a cable will try to convince you and themselves that it is better.

This has to be the most popular internet myth ever! I hear over and over and it is quite funny to a (former) electonrics engineer like myself. I wonder how this rumour even started.

Digital signals are still sent as waves - just like analog signals. In fact they are sent as square waves which is HARDER do to than an analog wave. Because the digital timing is critical theyare MORE likely to suffer degradation/signal problems. If an analog signal is distorted you get a crappy picture. if a digital signal is distorted your options range from dropped pixels - pixelation- nothing.

Now because digital signals are so fragile, a lot of error correcting data is sent with the digital stream so digital *connections* rarely fail. That reliability has nothing to do with the cable - a crappy cable will generate so many erros that even the error corection can't cope and the signal will be lost.

There was never a big difference between $100 Monster VGA cables and $5 VGA cables. There isn't a big difference between $100 HDMI cables and $5 HDMI cables. But a bad cable - of any type - will cause just as many problems in digial as it does in analog.

I recommend the OP hook up the cable to wave generator, run it into an oscilloscope and see how the shape is. Sounds like a grounding problem - perhaps a worn inner shell?


 Though with HDMI, if there is any slight problems in transfer at all, doesn't it just not get through? I thought that's how it was with HDMI...it's either it works with perfect quality or it doesn't work at all?



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

Bladeneo on 09 March 2008

Same thing happened to me mate with my PS3 when i switched to my HD TV. Took me 3 HDMI cables before I found one that would work fine. My old cables were okay, but static would flicker onto the screen every so often.

I found the cheaper HDMI cable I got the better it was.



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souixan on 09 March 2008

1 Check cables for any sign of breaking
2 Pinch the wire firmly with two fingers and run along it's length feel for any breaks on the inside
3 Check the connection is it bent or are any of the connectors dirty or bent?

If it's none of these you can fairly safely rule out it being the cable, now for the TV. Do you own anything else that uses HDMI? Try using this cable on those things, I think some upscaling DVD players can be purchased sub 50$ now so that's an option.

Try reseting the PS3's settings, and redo them.

If it all fails it's either your TV or your PS3 more likely than the HDMI.



Lone_Canis_Lupus on 09 March 2008

Well...at first I thought this was an issue when I got it, but I could move the end around a little and was worried. But it turned out the sleeve was just broken...not anything inside. At least I don't think so. Other than the broken sleeve that lets it move freely, I don't really see any other problems with it. But I'll try what you said to check for problems...the cable is pretty thick though, so it might be hard to tell.



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

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phil on 09 March 2008
jkimball said:
 

This has to be the most popular internet myth ever! I hear over and over and it is quite funny to a (former) electonrics engineer like myself. I wonder how this rumour even started.

Digital signals are still sent as waves - just like analog signals. In fact they are sent as square waves which is HARDER do to than an analog wave. Because the digital timing is critical theyare MORE likely to suffer degradation/signal problems. If an analog signal is distorted you get a crappy picture. if a digital signal is distorted your options range from dropped pixels - pixelation- nothing.

Now because digital signals are so fragile, a lot of error correcting data is sent with the digital stream so digital *connections* rarely fail. That reliability has nothing to do with the cable - a crappy cable will generate so many erros that even the error corection can't cope and the signal will be lost.

There was never a big difference between $100 Monster VGA cables and $5 VGA cables. There isn't a big difference between $100 HDMI cables and $5 HDMI cables. But a bad cable - of any type - will cause just as many problems in digial as it does in analog.

I recommend the OP hook up the cable to wave generator, run it into an oscilloscope and see how the shape is. Sounds like a grounding problem - perhaps a worn inner shell?

 

Other than an EE, I doubt very much that most people have function generators and o-scopes just hanging out around the house.



jkimball on 10 March 2008
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
jkimball said:
akuma587 said:
HDMI cables are all more or less the same. Not even a trained professional will notice the difference between a $100 Monster cable and a $5 off brand cable (as long as the cables are both HDMI 1.3, but that only makes a difference in audio and other features that have yet to be implemented). It is a DIGITAL cable. 1's and 0's look the same no matter how you send them. You needed to worry about which component cables you bought because they were ANALOG and could be very different. A higher brand cable might last a little longer, but it would have to last 20 times as long for that cost difference to take effect, which it never will.

You don't need to go buy a Monster Cable. You are wasting your time and money that way. But believe me, people who spent $100 on a cable will try to convince you and themselves that it is better.

This has to be the most popular internet myth ever! I hear over and over and it is quite funny to a (former) electonrics engineer like myself. I wonder how this rumour even started.

Digital signals are still sent as waves - just like analog signals. In fact they are sent as square waves which is HARDER do to than an analog wave. Because the digital timing is critical theyare MORE likely to suffer degradation/signal problems. If an analog signal is distorted you get a crappy picture. if a digital signal is distorted your options range from dropped pixels - pixelation- nothing.

Now because digital signals are so fragile, a lot of error correcting data is sent with the digital stream so digital *connections* rarely fail. That reliability has nothing to do with the cable - a crappy cable will generate so many erros that even the error corection can't cope and the signal will be lost.

There was never a big difference between $100 Monster VGA cables and $5 VGA cables. There isn't a big difference between $100 HDMI cables and $5 HDMI cables. But a bad cable - of any type - will cause just as many problems in digial as it does in analog.

I recommend the OP hook up the cable to wave generator, run it into an oscilloscope and see how the shape is. Sounds like a grounding problem - perhaps a worn inner shell?


 Though with HDMI, if there is any slight problems in transfer at all, doesn't it just not get through? I thought that's how it was with HDMI...it's either it works with perfect quality or it doesn't work at all?

 

HDMI has another complicating factor - HDCP. HDCP is the Content Protection anti-piracy scheme applied to HDMI connections. It requires an encrypted connection between devices - in theory to prevent unauthorized copying. In reality if HDCP 'handshake' isn't made or fails the signal is cut off. So HDMI  connections are *very* sensitive to bad data and yes, with HD material tends to be an on or off situation.

DVI, which is basically HDMI without the HDCP is also digital and it can have drop offs, pixelation, color shifts etc when bits go missing. 

 Whether a display shows bad data or just cuts the whole signal is up to the manufacturer.  Sony XBR TV's will show just about anything no matter how poor the signal -  they have enough processing power to figure out _something_ to display. Cheaper LCD's just give up and go blank at the first sign of trouble.

 



Trying to convince me the Wii is a real adult game machine 'if you play it right' is like trying to convince me Tofu tastes great 'if you just cook it right'

Squall_Leonhart on 10 March 2008

Off topic but i finally got my sig pic working :D



Smidlee on 11 March 2008
jkimball said:
akuma587 said:
HDMI cables are all more or less the same. Not even a trained professional will notice the difference between a $100 Monster cable and a $5 off brand cable (as long as the cables are both HDMI 1.3, but that only makes a difference in audio and other features that have yet to be implemented). It is a DIGITAL cable. 1's and 0's look the same no matter how you send them. You needed to worry about which component cables you bought because they were ANALOG and could be very different. A higher brand cable might last a little longer, but it would have to last 20 times as long for that cost difference to take effect, which it never will.

You don't need to go buy a Monster Cable. You are wasting your time and money that way. But believe me, people who spent $100 on a cable will try to convince you and themselves that it is better.

This has to be the most popular internet myth ever! I hear over and over and it is quite funny to a (former) electonrics engineer like myself. I wonder how this rumour even started.

Digital signals are still sent as waves - just like analog signals. In fact they are sent as square waves which is HARDER do to than an analog wave. Because the digital timing is critical theyare MORE likely to suffer degradation/signal problems. If an analog signal is distorted you get a crappy picture. if a digital signal is distorted your options range from dropped pixels - pixelation- nothing.

Now because digital signals are so fragile, a lot of error correcting data is sent with the digital stream so digital *connections* rarely fail. That reliability has nothing to do with the cable - a crappy cable will generate so many erros that even the error corection can't cope and the signal will be lost.

There was never a big difference between $100 Monster VGA cables and $5 VGA cables. There isn't a big difference between $100 HDMI cables and $5 HDMI cables. But a bad cable - of any type - will cause just as many problems in digial as it does in analog.

I recommend the OP hook up the cable to wave generator, run it into an oscilloscope and see how the shape is. Sounds like a grounding problem - perhaps a worn inner shell?

You sound very smart but if you send a butch of 1 and 0 down the lines it would produced a square wave on an oscilloscope just like sending the Morse code down the line so why did you say it's a myth? (The same with turning on a light then off then on again as 1 is on and 0 is off)

Anyone with digital cable and phone knows that a digital signal can be broken up as well. The same people would know a bad digital connection can be more annoying than a bad analog connection.

As someone pointed out you don't have to be very smart to know it's a thousand times more likely someone would have an extra HDMI connection and source than having an oscilloscope laying around the house.



Lone_Canis_Lupus on 13 March 2008

Problem solved, bought a cheap $5 cable and it worked instantly. The cables I ordered off ebay just sucked...but yeah, I'm glad it wasn't any of the sockets.



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus