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Forums - Gaming - The problem with Wii U

sethnintendo on 25 February 2015
dharh said:

The idea that Nintedo games are in any way intellectually demanding is laughable. They do _not_ require thought. They are games for "Everyone".

I played with a friend that mainly plays Skyrim, Just Cause, CoD... type of games and he was terrible at NSMBU.  It was so pathetic and it took him about 10 mins to realize that he could run by holding down the button.  I didn't think I had to explain that one to him but apparently he forgot.  I believe he had to use over 20 continues (5 lives per continue I believe) in about 1-2 hours of play.  He was decent at Hyrule Warriors though but that is pretty much button smashing.  He was terrible at Smash considering that game takes some skill.



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dharh on 25 February 2015
sethnintendo said:
dharh said:

The idea that Nintedo games are in any way intellectually demanding is laughable. They do _not_ require thought. They are games for "Everyone".

I played with a friend that mainly plays Skyrim, Just Cause, CoD... type of games and he was terrible at NSMBU.  It was so pathetic and it took him about 10 mins to realize that he could run by holding down the button.  I didn't think I had to explain that one to him but apparently he forgot.  I believe he had to use over 20 continues (5 lives per continue I believe) in about 1-2 hours of play.  He was decent at Hyrule Warriors though but that is pretty much button smashing.  He was terrible at Smash considering that game takes some skill.

What he lacks is 'skill' in those types of games.  Actually, he lacks the experience I expect you have accumulated over the years playing mario games, if he has played platformers at all of a similar type. There is an entirely different intuition involved playing these different types of games. Being a 'skilled' skyrim player is more oriented in understanding a bunch of straight forward issues (skills, xp, hack slash crap, etc) vs learned mechanics like this button means run vs walk, things you got from back in the NES days that carry forward since the mario formula has not really changed fundamentally since then to now. Also keyboard is not at all analogous to a controller. If he played skyrim with a controller and still failed to learner NSMBU mechanics after 10 minutes he also could just be crap at gaming in general.

Being able to play one type of game does not mean you can play another type of game at all, even a super simple game like most mainstay mario games. The skills are really just mutually exclusive in their intuitiveness.

Smash does take skill, but no more really than any other Fighter game imo and I have played quite a few of all the different types. I'd be curious if people disagree.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
oniyide on 25 February 2015
jmorris724 said:
mario has never been an annual franchise. spinoffs, yeah, but they don't come out with the same thing year after year and stick a different label on it.

and so what? Does it make a difference whether its annual or not? fact is there are very few series that actually have annual releases. outside of the sports genre its COD AC and nothing much else. 

And that still doesnt discount my point. How is Mario different than the others. THere are spinoffs but that doesnt make it much better. Even sticking to just the 2d ones there are stil alot that have been released. Hell they released two in one year and they sold a bunch so i guess people do like the same thing over and over



oniyide on 25 February 2015
dharh said:
sethnintendo said:
dharh said:

The idea that Nintedo games are in any way intellectually demanding is laughable. They do _not_ require thought. They are games for "Everyone".

I played with a friend that mainly plays Skyrim, Just Cause, CoD... type of games and he was terrible at NSMBU.  It was so pathetic and it took him about 10 mins to realize that he could run by holding down the button.  I didn't think I had to explain that one to him but apparently he forgot.  I believe he had to use over 20 continues (5 lives per continue I believe) in about 1-2 hours of play.  He was decent at Hyrule Warriors though but that is pretty much button smashing.  He was terrible at Smash considering that game takes some skill.

What he lacks is 'skill' in those types of games.  Actually, he lacks the experience I expect you have accumulated over the years playing mario games, if he has played platformers at all of a similar type. There is an entirely different intuition involved playing these different types of games. Being a 'skilled' skyrim player is more oriented in understanding a bunch of straight forward issues (skills, xp, hack slash crap, etc) vs learned mechanics like this button means run vs walk, things you got from back in the NES days that carry forward since the mario formula has not really changed fundamentally since then to now. Also keyboard is not at all analogous to a controller. If he played skyrim with a controller and still failed to learner NSMBU mechanics after 10 minutes he also could just be crap at gaming in general.

Being able to play one type of game does not mean you can play another type of game at all, even a super simple game like most mainstay mario games. The skills are really just mutually exclusive in their intuitiveness.

Smash does take skill, but no more really than any other Fighter game imo and I have played quite a few of all the different types. I'd be curious if people disagree.


IMHO it wasnt a smart comparison either. Thats like saying hey your good in basketball so why cant you play football?



Raze on 25 February 2015
dharh said:
Raze said:


Or the trtuh. Look at what sells, the same regurgitated stuff, more of the same, throw more slop into the trough, they'll eat it up. No one stops to say "hey we've played this FPS game 5 times before, and nearly nothing is changing". Instead it's "oh look the new Madden, with a sligthly different roster, take my money!" , "yay, a new GTA, so I can run around and randomly destroy things and kill people for fun!"

Mind you, I'm talking about gamers, not what we would call "casual" gamers, they fall under that "simple is best" category too though.

My point wasn't about annual games, rehashes, or whatever. 

Nintendo's problem is that they make games that require thought in a market dominated by people who don't want to think.

The idea that Nintedo games are in any way intellectually demanding is laughable. They do _not_ require thought. They are games for "Everyone".

Rehashes, the same game with the slightly shinier coat, whatever have nothing at all to do with the sophistication of the underlying game itself.

The original comment itself is cat crap. If you want to make a different argument that Nintendo games evolve more per iteration than a game like COD or GTA, or that they do more new IP, then fine. But I daresay there is much more sophistication in a game like COD or GTA than any Mario game. It's just the way it is, its not even bad or good imo.

Sure, mario I'll give you. But put the Zelda or Metroid series against GTA or COD, there's a LOT more depth from Nintendo's side. There is no thought process needed for games like GTA, and only basic hide and snipe knowledge to survive  COD.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


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Dannythegamer on 26 February 2015

Not enough good games to justify the purchase of the system.



oniyide on 26 February 2015
Raze said:
dharh said:
Raze said:


Or the trtuh. Look at what sells, the same regurgitated stuff, more of the same, throw more slop into the trough, they'll eat it up. No one stops to say "hey we've played this FPS game 5 times before, and nearly nothing is changing". Instead it's "oh look the new Madden, with a sligthly different roster, take my money!" , "yay, a new GTA, so I can run around and randomly destroy things and kill people for fun!"

Mind you, I'm talking about gamers, not what we would call "casual" gamers, they fall under that "simple is best" category too though.

My point wasn't about annual games, rehashes, or whatever. 

Nintendo's problem is that they make games that require thought in a market dominated by people who don't want to think.

The idea that Nintedo games are in any way intellectually demanding is laughable. They do _not_ require thought. They are games for "Everyone".

Rehashes, the same game with the slightly shinier coat, whatever have nothing at all to do with the sophistication of the underlying game itself.

The original comment itself is cat crap. If you want to make a different argument that Nintendo games evolve more per iteration than a game like COD or GTA, or that they do more new IP, then fine. But I daresay there is much more sophistication in a game like COD or GTA than any Mario game. It's just the way it is, its not even bad or good imo.

Sure, mario I'll give you. But put the Zelda or Metroid series against GTA or COD, there's a LOT more depth from Nintendo's side. There is no thought process needed for games like GTA, and only basic hide and snipe knowledge to survive  COD.

you either dont play those games or not very good at them. I dont know what GTA you've played but the campaigns are long and not something you can just breeze through. But dont discount MP the fact you compete against other actually human beings mean you will be thinking. 



Raze on 27 February 2015
oniyide said:

you either dont play those games or not very good at them. I dont know what GTA you've played but the campaigns are long and not something you can just breeze through. But dont discount MP the fact you compete against other actually human beings mean you will be thinking. 


likely the inverse, as i beat those games pretty easily without walkthroughs or anything. The issue with MP is that it's more trial and error. You find the camper's spot and kill him from a different angle. He finds a new spot, kills you, you make note, kill him, rinse and repeat.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


oniyide on 27 February 2015
Raze said:
oniyide said:

you either dont play those games or not very good at them. I dont know what GTA you've played but the campaigns are long and not something you can just breeze through. But dont discount MP the fact you compete against other actually human beings mean you will be thinking. 


likely the inverse, as i beat those games pretty easily without walkthroughs or anything. The issue with MP is that it's more trial and error. You find the camper's spot and kill him from a different angle. He finds a new spot, kills you, you make note, kill him, rinse and repeat.

that doesnt work on people who know what they are doing and that doesnt apply to all games case in point not really an option in GTA