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Forums - Gaming - Sony as 'third party' in handheld scene?

Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:

Grand Theft Auto, Final Fantasy Dissidia, FIFA, God of War, Gran Turismo, etc. and others have sold well on the PSP in the past. 

The issue is today is Nintendo is the only one strong enough to push through smartphones and have a handheld userbase that makes selling big IP titles feasible. 

Third parties trust Sony, if Sony banks on Nintendo, then a lot of them would follow suit too IMO. Sony brings legitimacy and wider market demographic to the table. 

So why didn't they on the Vita? Because the handheld market has changed, they don't want those kinds of games anymore.


The value proposition of the Vita just isn't there. Nintendo still has their strong hold in the portable business though. Sony can piggyback off that. 



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Heavenly_King said:
Sony main 1st party studios have too much pride (with sprinkles of arrogance) to develop handheld games.


They wouldn't really have to, Uncharted on Vita was pretty good so was God Of War on PSP. These games can be farmed out, it's not a problem, hell Nintendo could even take a crack at one of them perhaps (how about a Retro Uncharted game?). 

Putting your top teams on handheld games is really a relatively new thing even for Nintendo, prior to the DS they did not put their top teams on handheld projects and even today the console versions of games usually get the better/bigger team, ie: NSMBU got the "real" NSMB team, NSMB2 was made by a younger, start-up team. 

The next Nintendo handheld could have some pretty good kick to it too, Vita is fairly powerful but handheld components have come a long way since then. 



Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:
Ka-pi96 said:

So why didn't they on the Vita? Because the handheld market has changed, they don't want those kinds of games anymore.


The value proposition of the Vita just isn't there. Nintendo still has their strong hold in the portable business though. Sony can piggyback off that. 

The 3DS has an entirely different set of gamers that wouldn't play those games though, so it would require new people to buy the system. The 3DS is about the same price as the Vita, so if the Vita isn't the right value for them then the 3DS wouldn't be either. Especially when you consider that people that want to play games like FIFA and GTA likely have consoles to play them on already and now those games are even releasing on mobile, making handhelds even less appealing to them.

I don't think game diversity has hurt any game platform in history. 

Anyways, having games would just be secondary to Sony, if they could parlay this into a component deal with Nintendo, making a deal is worthwhile just on that basis alone. 

Introducing kids and the Nintendo fanbase to Sony IP is also a plus for Sony. 

Ultimately too if they could secure a deal where Nintendo also agrees to support their home consoles (to which Nintendo would have several benefits), that would be the big ticket win for them. 

Downsides? Really minimal, I mean you might have to farm out some projects to studios, but so what ... Sony does that all the time and finances all types of weird indie/arthouse games. 

There's only a downside here for Sony if they were planning on making a Vita 2, which I seriously doubt. 



Ka-pi96 said:
Ljink96 said:
Ff7 Super. DS sounds good...

By Ff7 do you mean Final Fantasy 7?

That's Square Enix's, not Sony's...


I'm well aware of that. It's just that when companies combine, they're much more leniant on what games appear on what. It just seems like FFVII would only appear on PS or XB. Eh, I'm going into what if territory. I guess I just shot mysself in the foot due to Sony and SE severing their game deal.



Ka-pi96 said:
Ljink96 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

By Ff7 do you mean Final Fantasy 7?

That's Square Enix's, not Sony's...


I'm well aware of that. It's just that when companies combine, they're much more leniant on what games appear on what. It just seems like FFVII would only appear on PS or XB. Eh, I'm going into what if territory. I guess I just shot mysself in the foot due to Sony and SE severing their game deal.

The steam version says hi

Saw that coming, but my thought process was screwed from the beginning.



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Sony as a third party means they have to pay licence/platform holder fees. It means they either keep pushing AAA like quality and make less, if not lose, money. Or they can drop quality either by pumping out games in a short amount of time (unpolished) or by lowering game budgets.



Soundwave said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:
hsrob said:
Would have about as much impact as third party support has on the WiiU.


I think it would have more impact than people think. 

If Sony supports, than I think a number of other third parties would throw heavier support on the Nintendo handheld and it would be seen more of a industry standard rather than a "kids toy" that Western developers look at the DS/3DS as. 

You probably would start seeing more Western developer content for the device than the 3DS or DS got or other traditionally Sony-centric IP like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Borderlands, Grand Theft Auto, FIFA, and Street Fighter may also start to become more prevalent. 

Part of Nintendo's problem is they don't themselves really try to engage in these other types of genres, so third parties look at that and say "well if Nintendo's not trying why should we? They're making a bunch of mascot games for it so we'll support it with mascot and kids games". 

With Sony onboard though they could act as buffer a developer like Rockstar could say "well hey Sony is making an Uncharted and God of War for this thing, maybe we can try a Grand Theft Auto for it". 

So games that didn't do well on handhelds before are now magically going to start being succesful? Seems unlikely...

Grand Theft Auto, Final Fantasy Dissidia, FIFA, God of War, Gran Turismo, etc. and others have sold well on the PSP in the past. 

The issue is today is Nintendo is the only one strong enough to push through smartphones and have a handheld userbase that makes selling big IP titles feasible. 

Third parties trust Sony, if Sony banks on Nintendo, then a lot of them would follow suit too IMO. Sony brings legitimacy and wider market demographic to the table. 


I am inclined to agree in overall sentiment in so far as I've seen people playing FIFA on the last gen PSP and that seems unthinkable on the 3DS for what seems like virtually no good reason outside of a failure of understanding of what handhelds can do. I mean come on, freaking FIFA might be 'bro-dude central' but its also a perfect fit for handheld gaming from a ludological stand-point!  If Sony could help break the line of thinking that prevents other games like that from having enough effort and marketing put in to actually sell to their full potential it'd be epic... 

 

It would definitely be worth Nintendo's while to hire Sony for a 'games and parts' contract like you suggested if Nintendo even suspects, or if Sony can confidently suggest, that outcome.



Ka-pi96 said:
Soundwave said:
Ka-pi96 said:

The 3DS has an entirely different set of gamers that wouldn't play those games though, so it would require new people to buy the system. The 3DS is about the same price as the Vita, so if the Vita isn't the right value for them then the 3DS wouldn't be either. Especially when you consider that people that want to play games like FIFA and GTA likely have consoles to play them on already and now those games are even releasing on mobile, making handhelds even less appealing to them.

I don't think game diversity has hurt any game platform in history. 

Anyways, having games would just be secondary to Sony, if they could parlay this into a component deal with Nintendo, making a deal is worthwhile just on that basis alone. 

Introducing kids and the Nintendo fanbase to Sony IP is also a plus for Sony. 

Ultimately too if they could secure a deal where Nintendo also agrees to support their home consoles (to which Nintendo would have several benefits), that would be the big ticket win for them. 

Downsides? Really minimal, I mean you might have to farm out some projects to studios, but so what ... Sony does that all the time and finances all types of weird indie/arthouse games. 

There's only a downside here for Sony if they were planning on making a Vita 2, which I seriously doubt. 

Game diversity isn't bad, but if the market isn't there for it then they will just flop which would be bad for everyone.

What kind of component deal are you thinking about though? As far as I know Sony have to buy all their components from other companies (like AMD) anyways, so how would that work?

I think there are plenty enough kids on PS consoles that that wouldn't really change much there.

If they could get a deal where Nintendo supports their home console though, then it would actually have a decent upside for Sony. But otherwise it just seems like they'd be much better off doing something else.


Sony makes LCDs, cameras, batteries, and other portable components. Hell they actually own the DRAM factory that makes components for the Wii U. It's a big part of their business actually and will become bigger in the future as they scale back being a consumer electronic brand. 

Securing a contract for Nintendo's next-gen handheld would be a very nice win for Sony. 



Sony already failed with the previous all digital PSP and then the Vita, I'm pretty sure they're done with handheld gaming at this point, they realise they cannot compete with Nintendo on that ground and decided to focus on their home console, they'll probably shift some focus onto mobile devices but it still won't be amazing or anything, probably more suited towards games you play on the train or travel in general but not games you'd play for hours like you would on a handheld.

I'm pretty sure we've already established that Sony and Nintendo would never partner up anyway given the evidence over the years, same with Microsoft, the peroid of making games for other rivals is pretty much over and done with.



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

Soundwave said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Wrong. It's make games for Nintendo... or make games for PS4/PS5. I think the latter is the much better option...


They'd still obviously make games for the PS4/PS5. They could just keep their foot in the handheld market too. PSP was at one time a nice part of their business, I don't think it really helps Sony to lose that entirely. 

Sony has no problem funding studios to make projects, so IP like Uncharted and GOW can be outsourced, that's no the problem. The problem for Sony was they didn't have a userbase with Vita to sell those games to, if they did they would've continued to support the Vita. But by supporting Nintendo they're assured a decent userbase to sell to, like the PSP had. 

If they expand the deal to get Nintendo to bring some of their IP to the PS4 .... bang. That's a huge win for them. 


I see no benefit to Sony developing on Nintendo handhelds whatsoever. It clearly would take resources away from the PS4/PS5. This was a big reason the Vita software dried up, they shifted all their studios onto the PS4 including ones who previously only made handheld software.

Starting to develop in a big way for handhelds again would once again start to drain those resources. Nintendo's own issues have shown that with the great improvements in mobile technology, it's taken big resources to keep software coming.

Why start to invest again in what is clearly a hugely declining market?



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.