misterd said: That Guy said: I also find it ironic that the pendulum has swung the other way. 150 years ago, someone claiming to be an evolutionist would have been flamed and pretty much ridiculed out of the scientific community (or at least out of VG Chartz, if such website existed 150 years ago).
Now its the other way around and "Intelligent Design" is the new 4-letter word in science.
My opinion on the matter is that we could reach some sort of balance.
I have no objection against ID people having their own college courses. If such a demand is there, then there should be a class about it. At this point, however, my opinion is that it should be held as a general elective (much like how theology or philosophy can be general electives). If people want to learn about creationism, then they are certainly welcome to do so. People who subscribe to evolution can still take their evolutionary biology classes.
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So should we have a class in phlogiston theory for those who deny atomic theory? A medical course on humour imbalances and demonic possession for those who reject germ theory? Aristotle's theory of gravity for those who reject Newton? Howabout Newton's explanation for why planets stay in their orbits (God keeps them there), rather than LaPlace's mathematical explanation? Science is not something one "subscribes" to like a religious or political belief. It presents argument, presents evidence, and those arguments that have the best evidence are the ones that stand and are accepted. Naturalistic evolution as, essentially, described by Darwin has been debated now for 149 years. It has been through various incarnations as different ideas were tested and rejected (neo-Lammarckism, for example), but since the discovery of genetics 100 years ago (practically speaking, that is), the evidence has rather consistently mounted in favor of the neo-Darwininan view (combining most of Darwin's original ideas with population genetics, mendelian genetics and now molecular genetics). And it's not even close. Trying to put ID on anything close to equal scientific footing with evolution is like trying to say that the Chocolate Rain guy deserves equal footing with Johann Sebastian Bach. Let the ID people do their work, do the research, present their findings, find SOME SHRED OF EVIDENCE, and then, and only then should it be considered appropriate material for a science class. Horses first, THEN carts. |
Again, if its an elective college course, then yeah I have nothing against it. They could even present it as a scientific theory if they want, just as long as they mention its criticisms. The only thing is I don't think it should be a required course.
I would classify it as perhaps a social science for now (along the same lines as theology or whatever). As ID matures as a field of study, then we'll see where it will be classified.
Um, didn't I just say that? From the beginning I implied that it wasn't on equal footing. I classify ID as a social science for now, since it sounds more like theology, philosophy, or african american studies. Thus, I consider it to be a "soft" science, as opposed to the "hard" sciences of math and physics. I also said that it should be an elective, i.e. something that's not a Major upon itself. That means someone can't get a degree on Intelligent Designism or whatever. Surely, by reading my post, you can easily understand what I'm implying.
And yes, I believe there are different history classes about Aristotle and Newton and Demon Possession and stuff like that. It is pretty interesting stuff. I remember learning about Lamark in my biology class, actually.
"Let the ID people do their work, do the research, present their findings, find SOME SHRED OF EVIDENCE, and then, and only then should it be considered appropriate material for a science class."
Saying "FIND SOME SHRED OF EVIDENCE" seems a bit harsh, as you're implying that they have NO EVIDENCE, but I agree with you wholeheartedly on that it shouldn't be treated as de facto science because the field of study is too young (the concept only started about 25 years ago, to my knowledge) and because nothing has been published yet.
As for "subscribing" to stuff, I believe there is some lattitude on what you can choose to believe, even in the sciences. Take cosmology and stuff like string theory, for example. There are dozens of different theories and camps that assert one theory over another. (there are probably hundreds of grand unified theories that have been proposed and almost all of them have been shot down for one reason or another).
No one is going to argue with you that 2 + 2 =5, but there are going to be different camps out there that will assert one GUT over another GUT for whatever reason.
Didn't you see my horse? I'm test driving the horse. I haven't even begun looking for carts.